legacycentral bbs

hey guys, i was driving through a dirt(more of a powder than dirt but ya) road, and by the time i got back onto the main road, i heard a knocking noise coming from the engine bay. im hoping it just needs an oil change, as it just hit 3k miles. i pressure washed the engine so it shouldnt be anything from that. im just curious if anyone has any ideas what it could be. i was told it could be the lifters, if it is, are ours adjustable? im just curious as to why it would start immediately after i went through that dusty road or if it was just a coinsidence. thanks guys

only 120k miles is why i said already BTW

Your post is extremely vague, can you give more detail? Is it constant with the engine rpm? Only in corners? Is it more of a tick or a knock? Could be alot of things, from lifters to cv axle, can you provide more detail.

And 3k miles is way too premature for oil changes, thats what the big companies what you to believe, but with modern day oils and additives, you're good for at least 5k miles. Synthetic 7-8k miles.

it is consistent with the RPMs sorry, it seems to be getting a little bit worse as time goes by. ive been reading some posts and it seems like an engine cleaner on top of an oil change should do the job, thats if the problem im having is similar to the ones ive been reading about. its definately something mechanical though it wouldnt be the cv's or anything like that. thanks for your help tho. does it sound like it would be the lifters?

Can you post up a video?

Stupid question, but have you checked your oil level?

Does it sound more like a tick or a knock?

i dont really have the quipto put up a video. its a ticking noise more than a knock. i have checked the oil level and its fine. however it is due for a change. im going to try the sea foam/ oil change on friday and see how that works. any help is much appreciaed, just got the car ad absolutely love it so i want to get the tick gone asap. thanks again
matt

dont worry about it. Most likely its the lifters sticking after a oil change it should go away.

Forgot to mention, check your plugs remove them and blow them out with a air compressor see if any water got inside there. It has happened to me and it will create a tick also studering.

i used sea foam, and then the next day changed oil and used Justice Brothers (frees sticky valves and lifters), and still getting a tick, i will have to try the plug thing but if not that ive been told i will need a valve adjustment, anyone know what one of those could run me?

There is no valve adjustment. The tapping is the hydraulic lifters not adjusting correctly. Most likely, you have air in them and they need to be bled. It's an easy job to do. Pop valve covers off. Take off rocker arms. Pull lifters off ends of rocker arms. Immerse lifters in oil and push them in and out to remove air. Reinstall.

Also...if you perform the procedure Steve mentions, you may find that you have a lifter that is bad. If the seals are bad they will collapse and won't maintain proper valve clearance.

ok, so if i drive around with this tick, will it harm the engine in any way? how would air get in there anyways? i plan on getting this fixed asap, but i will most likely just take it to a mechanic so i know i get the problem fixed... any idea on how much somebody would charge for that? (estimate, i mean like 100 or 500 or 1000) thanks again guys i will get it looked at next friday i get payed

Probably a few hours' labor even if he doesn't want to replace HLAs that might not need to be. Air usually gets in when the engine's sat for a while.

hmmm, the engine hasnt sat for any long amounts of time. ive had it for a month and driven it just about every day. does anyone know of a guide or anything on how to fix this problem? or should i have a mech do it?

ok, i talked to a mechanic today about it. he said to try lucas oil oil treatment, if that doesnt work im gonna have ot replace all of the lifters, and that the air cant be bled out... they would have to be replaced, but im kinda low on money ATM. if it is the lifters that need replaced, they are about 35$ each last time i checked, and you obviously need 16, so not exactly on the cheap side. would i be pointless to get used ones? and it would also be pointless to replace just 1 or whatever ones were damaged?? thanks guys any help is very much appreciated and sorry bout all the newb questions

ok, so i actually took it to the subaru dealership and he said that the valves need to be adjusted... im not tryin to argue with you guys or w/e im just tryin to hear opinions from all sides to find out whats wrong with it.... he said it would cost around 400 but it can be done on your own so im gonna start looking up how to do that... thanks alot though guys much appreciated i will do whatever it takes to keep this puppy on the road

What year and model is your car? We're assuming you have a first generation Legacy but if you have a second generation Legacy you just may have solid lifters. *EDIT* Nevermind, I did a search, and it seems you have a 5MT ss, correct?

Regarding replacing ALL of the hydraulic lifters, I would just replace the bad one, if it's bad. Since you're tight on funds and you're not rebuilding the engine, I don't think there is a need to replace all of them, at leaslt not right now. Other guys on this board are more knowledgeable than me on this subject so perhaps they can add their comments, too.

ok, so from what he said i just need the valves adjusted, unless they get in there and see that i need a lifter or multiple lifters replaced as well. i would prefer to do the work myself as i like learning about my car, and want to have pride saying i learned from it and i at least took part in fixing it. is this something that could be done in a weekend? or would it be way worth the time/money to have a professional do the work? keep in mind money is VERY tight at the moment
thanks guys

If you have the original or equivalent engine that came with your ss, then you will not be adjusting valves. You will either bleed the hydraulic lifters or will replace them if needed as posted above.

But if you have a "frankenstein" engine (an engine that has been assembled with parts from different years/models) with later model heads that have solid lifters, then you will need to adjust them.

Either way, if your budget is tight, and especially since you want to learn, then by all means do it yourself. It can be easily done in a weekend provided there are no surprises like needing parts when the parts store or junkyard is closed.

Since probably most of us don't know you personally, we don't know your mechanical aptitude. Whether it is great or not, most of us, if not all of us, probably learned to work on our cars and ended up making errors and took longer than we would have wanted to in the beginning. So, search the threads as best as you can and try to understand what needs to be done. Make a list of parts and tools you'll need and procedures you will follow to complete the work. If you still have questions, a number of us may be able to help.

If you're just starting to learn mechanics, it would be advisable to get a repair manual for your car, something like Haynes or similar. Keep in mind that, as posted many times on this board, those manuals are not comprehensive nor always accurate to give you all the information you'll need. But, at least it will be a start and give you a general idea of what needs to be done.

Josh (Legacy777) has kindly scanned the factory service manual and has it available on his site to peruse.

I really enjoy working on my car and many on the board do, too. Hope you find it likewise enjoyable and have success!

ok so i took it to my mechanic, and he says that i will need to replace the lifters. im so confused because i hear both the lifters need replaced or bled, and also hear the valves need adjusted, so i think im just gonna have the mechanic do it, and if the tick doesnt go away, then im not paying lol

Is your mechanic at the Subaru dealer or is he a mechanic that does all kinds of cars?

Alright, this is ridiculous.....the mechanics you've gone to are all idiots! They either don't have a freaking clue about the motor or are very lazy!

These motors utilze hydraulic lifters. The hydraulic lifters provide proper valve clearance between valve & the rocker arm. There is no adjusting the valves or anything like that. Oil is fed to them to keep proper valve clearance. If the seals in the lifter are bad, or there's junk in there, they will not be able to provide proper clearance.

This little diagram someone drew up provides a good picture of what a lifter looks like.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... lifter.jpg

You can see pics of where the lifters go in these pics of my ej22t heads
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... s/ej22t/09

It is possible you may need all new lifters, but without pulling the lifters out, bleeding them, and seeing if they hold pressure, you will never know. You need to find a shop that will do this. There are 3 bolts that hold on the valve cover and 8 or 10 bolts that hold on the rocker arm. It's a not a big deal for a good mechanic to bleed & verify whether the lifter is bad or not, and just replace those lifters. My old roommate in college had a Nissan Maxima that had this issue. They ended up replacing a handful of the lifters, but not all of them.

They're just trying to nail him on parts prices without spending shop time checking the lifters. I highly doubt more than a few would be bad.

ya, i am so clueless now. the mechanic by my work says that its gonna cost about 700-1000 to get them replaced. But he also said that i dont need to get them replaced its just a factor of me wanting the noise gone or not. the subaru mechanic said that the valaves need to be adjusted and that would be about 400. You would think that the subaru dealership would know what they are talking about, but apparently not. So honestly, ihave no clue where to go from here... i would like the noise to be gone but not if its gonna cost me 1/3 of the cost of the car, might as well do a full rebuild, but at 123k, shouldnt even be in my mind........ any advice/help is MUCH appreciated

Try synthetic oil? What weight oil are you running currently?