legacycentral bbs

Hi,

THis car is all of a sudden very hard to start when cold. Takes many minutes. Once it starts though it runs great and does not realy seem to smoke. Also once it starts it always starts easy, however, let it sit and get cold. Anyway, did a compression check and was at 135-140 on all cyclinders. I then added a couple of squirts of motor oil and compression jumped to ~175ish.

OK is that normal? What next?

terryg911
HAs 240K Miles

sounds like a tired engine...

Maybe a tired engine. But its funny that its hard to start "all of a sudden" when its cold.

I think its more important the compression is balanced rather than the # of PSI.

I'm sure you have already checked the plugs for wear.

Didn't we find that a bad coolant temperature sensor could lead to hard starts? It's a cheap thing to try.

Yes....coolant temp sensor would be a relatively cheap investment and could fix the problem.

I see that you say that once it starts, it starts easily. Does it have any issues while running? i.e. stall?

Happened to be on SubaruGenuineParts.com this morning. I checked the price of a new Coolant Temp Sensor, $21.03 plus shipping.

It runs great when it is running. Absolity no issues. After one of those really hard starts it blows smoke for a while. You also smell gas really strongly.

Once it has started it then runs great. Would a bad collant sensor drop a code? THe engine light is not on.

Thanks Terryg

OK my son pulled the codes and I got a

13 CMP Sensor Cam sensor
22 Knock Sensor (Maybe from Hard start when it sort of Backfires"
23 MAF Sensor

Anyway, I hope that this helps someone to help me. Today we could not get it to start at all. The last time it ran I added Compression adding oil like Roslin. When we checked the compression today I got an improvement:
4 155 psi ... 120 first crank and then to 160 in 3
2 160 psi ... The same
1 160 psi ... The same
3 160 psi ... Less on the first crank maybe 100 and then 3-4 cranks to 160

anyway I hope some one can help

thanks
terryg

Well the first thing to do is to check the operation of those components as per the manual. I'd also check the cam belt timing.

A faulty cam sensor or wiring would keep it from running. The others wouldn't, I don't think.

THe car does not Run ... It is just hard to start. When I looked at a Haines manual it stated for each of those to check the wiring and connection then replace the component.

The last few times it has started real easy when cold. I hate intermintant issues. So what is the best guess. Cam sensor if faulty is pretty deep. Need to remove a lot to get to. Temp snespr is easy and pretty cheap. Although the guage works and seems to read correctly. YOu know low when cold and higher when warm.

Thanks for any help

The cam sensor is very easy to access. It is in the front on the driver side on the back off the timing cover. It is held in place with 1 bolt, and just slides out.

U do not need to remove the timing belt and everything around it? THat is what the book (Haynes) makes you think? Do you know of a website that esplains on more detail? I also have a 93 Legacy.

Thanks for the help I really do appreciate it!
terryg911

I can take a pic tomorrow. Right now it is pouring. If you look on the drive side where the timing cover it on the outer edge there is a sensor there with 2 wires coming out of it, and it has 1 bolt. It is right off the edge you can not miss it!

First thing to do is to throw the hanes manual in the garbage. J/K

There are better resources posted on this site. Factory Service Manuals can be located through a site search.

I would suggest trying a coolant temp sensor before anything else. I've seen sparatic codes come from the ECU. When one sensor goes bad, you'll get 3 other codes. IIRC the coolant temp sensor controls ignition timing during start-up.

turboleg wrote:I would suggest trying a coolant temp sensor before anything else. I've seen sparatic codes come from the ECU. When one sensor goes bad, you'll get 3 other codes. IIRC the coolant temp sensor controls ignition timing during start-up.

Agreed. I'd highly recommend replacing the coolant temp sensor.

Also, I'd suggest clearing the codes and see what comes back.

I replaced teh coolant temp sensor and it started. However it was a warm day and in the afternon. This morning it would not start at all. This afetrnoon again warm it did start. Anyway, my son tried to clear the codes by connecting teh wires while running and teh Check Engine light is just flashing. NO code flashing just flashing. Also teh seatbelt light is flashing.

What do you think now.

Thanks
Terryg911

Might be a stupid question but, did you replace the coolant temp with the single wire coming out or the double wire coming out? Just saw in one of your post you were talking about the gauge sensor and not the ECM sensor.

I replaced the one with Two wires that was under the passenger side of the air intak

Also when my son cleared the codes the engine light was flashing no codes jsut flashiing. This AM it would not start as well. WIth the wires to make the code flash on teh engine light disconnected the engine light was flashing 13.

Thanks

Let me restate this ... I was not escatly clear

I replaced the one with Two wires that was under the passenger side of the air intak

Also when my son cleared the codes the engine light was flashing no codes just flashiing. This AM it would not start. We had disconeected the wires that make the engine light flash the codes ... Disconnected. While we where trying to start the car the engine light started flashing 13 ... When the key was on, yet the wires were disconnected. Last night my son cleared the codes and both seatbelt light and engine light where just flashing. No codes just flashimg.

Still the best way I have ever been able to clear codes is to pull the battery cables. Some say hit the brake pedal to drain every last drop of energy from every capacitor in the whole electrical system...personally I just leave the battery cables off over night. This should ensure a cleared ECU.

Here's a few other things I would do:
-Check battery voltage - some subies have had a hard time starting under 12V.
-Change the fuel filter and run some injector cleaner.
-Change the plugs (NGK OEM plugs prefered), wires, air filter.

If anyone else wants to weigh in: I wonder if the IAC or MAF could be causing issues.

So I went to get the spark plugs and got NGK G Powers. THey look the same as the ones that we put in not that long ago which I thought where Iradium ... but maybe not. Anyway, I checked the new ones out of teh box and they were 0.035" which is kind of small ... Should be 0.044" I beleive. OK We are pulling out the old ones and going to check the gap there. I was told no need to checkl the gap they are gaped correctly from NGK.

Eyeeeee

Thanks
Terry

I put in the newones at 0.044 and no start. Engine light still flashing 13 well tring to start it. We disconected the wires and will try again tommorow

terryg911 wrote:So I went to get the spark plugs and got NGK G Powers. THey look the same as the ones that we put in not that long ago which I thought where Iradium ... but maybe not. Anyway, I checked the new ones out of teh box and they were 0.035" which is kind of small ... Should be 0.044" I beleive. OK We are pulling out the old ones and going to check the gap there. I was told no need to checkl the gap they are gaped correctly from NGK.

Eyeeeee

Thanks
Terry

The G Power plugs are Platinum tipped

terryg911 wrote:I put in the newones at 0.044 and no start. Engine light still flashing 13 well tring to start it. We disconected the wires and will try again tommorow

NOTE: Do not gap Iridium or Platinum plugs. They are gapped from manufacture. If you try to gap them. You will damage them. Also, don't check the gap, if you notice any damage at the end of the plug. As if it was smashed, or gap was closed up. Take it back and exchange it.

Have you went through the troubleshooter for the Cam Angle Sensor (Code 13)?

IIRC proper gap is .039" - .043". You should gap as close to the Minimum as possible since over time the plug will wear and the gap will get larger.

Recalling from memory the NGK OEM plug was a BKR6E-11. I would check you'r owners manual for sure...but these plugs, in my opinion, are the best choice for our engines.

You say "no start" are you now seeing that the car won't start at all? Or is it still just when cold?

After everything it sounds better that you have killed a few CEL codes...one is much better than numerous codes.

THe car is starting. I did checlk the cam sensor and was getting a small voltage. HOwever it may have been weak or sometrhing. i found online a used Can ssbesor for 10$ known good so I Purchased it. IT started, Now it starts when cold and seems to be running OK. I will have my sone putin the cheap NGK's as now ot seems to idol funny. I think it is the plugs that I gaped that I was not suppose to.

THANK YOU for all your help.

Mountain Tech Subaru shop on ORegon City OR also rockes.

Thanks

Terryg