legacycentral bbs

Hello again everyone
I haven't posted in a really long time, but ive been reading lots. I'd like to thank any and all who have posted useful information here. If it weren't for forums like these i wouldn't know half of what know about Subaru's!

Ok, so I've been reading up for about a week now on how to pull this off successfully and for dirt cheap. I just have a few minor points i need clarification on, but ill start with the details...

I will be picking up a 1992 legacy turbo w/4eat as soon as i can get a ride over to it, its a 4 hour drive away and i need to drive it back. I want to put the engine, stock for now, into my 97 legacy EJ22 NA 5spd. I will have access to all parts from both cars and would like to use as much as i can without having to buy anything extra.

Please keep in mind that i cannot, by any means, afford piggyback/standalone engine management, nor can i afford a wrx swap. I'm a college student, so my budget is tighter than a nuns c*nt.

Now onto the questions:

1. CROSSMEMBER: Ive read that if i keep my 97 NA crossmember i will have to notch it. I would prefer to use the crossmember from the 92 turbo and leave it as is, but would it bolt right into my 97 or would it require modification? If so, how? What are your thoughts as to which would be better?

2. HEADS/WIRING: Here's the tricky part. I definitely want to stick with the 5spd that is already in my 97, so using the 4eat turbo ECU is out of the question. Therefore I would have to use my 97 5spd ECU. So from what ive read, as long as my boost remains at stock levels or <10psi the 97 NA ECU should be able to compensate with more fuel as the MAP senses more air entering the system. For this to work effectively i would use the NA heads and injectors on the turbo block. Correct?

If i follow this route will any wiring work need to be done? The cam sensors would be matched for the ECU, so that doesn't worry me. But, will the crank sensor from the turbo motor be compatible or will the one from the NA fit the turbo crank??

3. EXHAUST: I haven't found much on this subject other than an up-pipe would have to be made from the NA headers if the NA heads are to be used. Would it be easier to fab an up-pipe from the NA single port headers or modify the turbo headers to work with the single port heads, if even possible?

-Frank

Ok, so i bought the car. Motor runs top notch.

If anyone has done this swap before, your help would be greatly appreciated.

I have not done such a swap, but know a few people that have done similar things. I hope none of this is misleading:

1. I _believe_ the c-member will line up on the newer cars, but I'm not certain. The one from my wife's '99 impreza is identical to my '92... so that suggest's the two you are dealing with may also be the same. Either way, it's an easy check.

2. The 5MT in the '97 won't care what ECU you use. You can use the computer out of the 92 with very minor modification to ignore the AT that is no longer there (lots of posts on this re the AT -> MT swap). I'd also recommend swapping the complete relevant '92 engine wiring harness so you can keep the computer system + engine management consistent. Look up which pins need to be jumped when you remove the AT TCU so things work correctly, that would be the same as any 4EAT -> 5MT swap where an MT wiring harness is not swapped as well. Also, make sure you are dead certain the final drive ratio of the transmission matches the diff.

These are very minor modifications compared to running the wrong motor/head/ECU combination.

3. I dunno.

If I were you... I'd just put the 5MT in the '92 legacy and call it a day

Ive considered it but after driving the 92 for a while i quickly realized it wouldn't be worth sinking any money into.

I like your idea of using the whole turbo engine as-is and using it wiring and ECU from the 92.
Ive been watching this thread closely and have been looking online for info on how to make this work effectively but im having trouble. Any clue what modifications would have to be done to the ECU from the 92?

There's no modification to the actual ECU itself, you just need to jump a couple pins on a few connectors to make it work correctly vis a vis no more auto transmission. Very minor, and I think it's covered in Josh's writeup, here: http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap/swap.html

But, it has been discussed at length, so do a search.

I's been so long since I did my AT -> MT swap that I can't recall which gets connected to what, but I do remember jumping several things on those big buggers on the passenger side of the engine compartment, and splicing something in to make my reverse lights work. The relevant bit on the ECU info is here: http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swa ... rical.html

You will have far less problems in the long (and short) run by using the engine wiring harness from the 92 and keeping the turbo motor unmolested (those heads off the '97 are awful... single exhaust port, correct?). It will be tedious to swap it all out, but I'll wager that it's very similar in layout between the two years.

Sounds like an interesting project... but I still vote keep the '92

Furnace89 wrote: 1. CROSSMEMBER: Ive read that if i keep my 97 NA crossmember i will have to notch it. I would prefer to use the crossmember from the 92 turbo and leave it as is, but would it bolt right into my 97 or would it require modification? If so, how? What are your thoughts as to which would be better?

2. HEADS/WIRING: Here's the tricky part. I definitely want to stick with the 5spd that is already in my 97, so using the 4eat turbo ECU is out of the question. Therefore I would have to use my 97 5spd ECU. So from what ive read, as long as my boost remains at stock levels or <10psi the 97 NA ECU should be able to compensate with more fuel as the MAP senses more air entering the system. For this to work effectively i would use the NA heads and injectors on the turbo block. Correct?

If i follow this route will any wiring work need to be done? The cam sensors would be matched for the ECU, so that doesn't worry me. But, will the crank sensor from the turbo motor be compatible or will the one from the NA fit the turbo crank??

3. EXHAUST: I haven't found much on this subject other than an up-pipe would have to be made from the NA headers if the NA heads are to be used. Would it be easier to fab an up-pipe from the NA single port headers or modify the turbo headers to work with the single port heads, if even possible?

-Frank

1. Bolt in the turbo crossmember if you plan to use the factory turbo exhaust. I wouldn't think twice about it.

2. The turbo ECU is not transmission specific. Keep in mind that you're also dealing with a ODB1 vs. ODB2. I would NOT trust the stock ECU to address fueling needs. I would get a rising rate fuel pressure regulator (RRFPR) to control fuel in boost. Off the top of my head, the only wiring that's different between the two cars is the throttle position sensor and the Idle air control valve.

3. Anything's possible, it's all going to depend on which route you decide to go.

If it were me - I'd turbo the 97's stock engine with low boost, a RRFPR, and a new 255lph fuel pump. You'll see some decent power gains.

Furnace89 wrote:Ive considered it but after driving the 92 for a while i quickly realized it wouldn't be worth sinking any money into.

You didn't explain what makes you think the 92 wouldn't be worth spending money on, but -- you know much of what's on your 97 would bolt onto your 92, right? You could move the newer suspension and better seats over, for example. You can swap the transmission, too.

the rrfpr and new fuel pump I was planning on getting when I would be ready to upgrade the turbo and injectors, but would they help at all if I left the engine stock for now?

the 92 would need serious body work on all 4 fenders, the rusts eaten through in a few places, the has tank leaks when its over 3/4 tank, the brakes in the front would have to be redone, possibly the calipers included, at least one cv axle is grinding horribly and the ac doesn't work... its just not worth it, I could get a similar car cert. for less than what it would cost to fix

I gotta be honest, I really do prefer the body style of the 92 though haha

im driving the car up to my parents house tonight as I don't have room at my apt here. ill try to take some pic with my phone and upload them

You could also check sl-i.net. I think a couple of guys swapped in turbo engines into the second generation Legacies.

Ah, I see.

Don't install the rising rate fuel pressure regulator without a turbo.

If I were you I would

-use the ej22t block,heads,turbo,exhaust
-use your intake manifold from your car with the original wiring
-use a vortech fmu with a 7:1 or 8:1 plate since its MAF based


just my .02

Use the turbo crossmember. No brainer there. Save the sway bar of you will hate your life.



Personally, I would swap the whole motor in, and get intimately familiar with the wiring of both cars. You could merge the two harnesses to make it run like a champ on the 22T ECU.




But honestly, I would run the old car as is until you can get a Link G4 Storm. Then you could make wiring waaay easier, and actually take advantage of what you have.

abest10 wrote:If I were you I would

-use the ej22t block,heads,turbo,exhaust
-use your intake manifold from your car with the original wiring
-use a vortech fmu with a 7:1 or 8:1 plate since its MAF based

The entire wiring harness or just the wiring associated with the intake manifold? Run with which ECU?

93forestpearl wrote:Use the turbo crossmember. No brainer there. Save the sway bar of you will hate your life.

Personally, I would swap the whole motor in, and get intimately familiar with the wiring of both cars. You could merge the two harnesses to make it run like a champ on the 22T ECU.

But honestly, I would run the old car as is until you can get a Link G4 Storm. Then you could make wiring waaay easier, and actually take advantage of what you have.

I was unfamiliar with the Link G4 Storm until you mentioned it... From what ive read on their website it would have to be tuned by one of their pro's?[/img]

The entire wiring harness or just the wiring associated with the intake manifold? Run with which ECU?


Im saying just run the wiring in your car now. Just swap over your entire intake manifold with all the sensors and wring. and use the stock ecu in your car now.

Would my NA ECU be able to to manage the engine under boost? Is this how you have your impreza setup?

I don't mind removing the 92's ECU and merging it into my 97, but im still doing research on how to do it properly. This link
http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swa ... rical.html
provided me with LOTS of useful information but the guy was swapping OBD1 to OBD1, which would be much easier. (thanks again fishbone79!)

^^Yes Im running my 2.2 turbo impreza on a vortech fmu and a walbro 255 fuel pump. I used my impreza manifold with all wiring and sensors. I had no wiring and used check valves for any sensors on the intake manifold so the N/A ecu would not see boost and freak out.

No wiring eh??... sounds almost too good to be true. Would your setup work without the walbro 255 and and vortech fmu completely stock? Those 2 components sound quite pricey for me right now.

Also, which fuel rails and injectors did you use?

Furnace89 wrote:No wiring eh??... sounds almost too good to be true. Would your setup work without the walbro 255 and and vortech fmu completely stock? Those 2 components sound quite pricey for me right now.

Also, which fuel rails and injectors did you use?

No those 2 things are what is powering my car under boost. You can get a Vortech FMU and Walbro for $200 for both. I just used stock injectors and fuel rails.

Stock injectors from the NA or the turbo engine? I'm kinda dumb right now as to the ignition system for this swap.... im learning though

I'm also watching a set of STI injectors, i might be able to get them for cheap, then find the 1st gen NA rails to fit them in.

For the fuel pump could i get away with using the one from the 92 turbo? Rather than buy a Walbro, for now?

Im running the stock N/A injectors.

I would get the Walbro fuel pump as the Legacy Turbo pump would cut out due to the RRFPR. For your MAF car, I would recommend using a 7:1 or 8:1 plate in the RRFPR. Im using a 7:1 in my MAF based impreza now. The MAP based cars like the 12:1 plate.

Why not keep the 92 ss alone and spend the money from the swap torwards mods??? OR just get an Ej20k motor in your newer
legacy?

abest10, since ive got the entire ECU and wiring harness that came with the car im planning on using both of them.

Ive got the wiring diagrams and pinouts for both ecus. So, ill run the 97 off of the 92 ecu.
The only snag im having is for the cruise and speedo.
I have no indication from the pinouts as to which pins are related with the cruise.
For the speedo, i know i can take the speedo cable and gauge from the 92 somehow... but id rather have my current electric gauge run by either ecy somehow, possible?


91legacyawdturbo:
The ej20k is too expensive for me and like i said before "the 92 would need serious body work on all 4 fenders, the rusts eaten through in a few places, the has tank leaks when its over 3/4 tank, the brakes in the front would have to be redone, possibly the calipers included, at least one cv axle is grinding horribly and the ac doesn't work... its just not worth it, I could get a similar car cert. for less than what it would cost to fix".
The engines out already and the interior is stripped dow the firewall
pics in my other post http://www.snipurl.com/turboswap2

Ah ok sorry I didn't read the whole thread, I know where you can get a whole ecu diagram for both cars, or if some on here has access to alldata or Mitchell you can get the pin outs there or try alldatadiy.com?? It's a 25.00 subscription but it has just about everything you could possibly ask for.

we usually have access to mitchell at work, but our license has been overused.

check my other post for updates

I can try to get some SS pin layouts if you like?