legacycentral bbs

Took a 2010 Legacy for a test-drive after work. No one went with me, so I drove the car how I wanted.

It was a Legacy sedan, nonturbo 2.5L, CVT, silver color.

I'll just say it outright: It's the worst Subaru I've ever driven, and couldn't be farther from my conception of a Subaru.

The car has decent room, but for the size of the car, it could have a lot more.

I've never heard a worse-sounding Subaru in all my life. The engine growls like a poodle growls. It's very loud and raspy, but sounds underpowered and strained. The NVH of the body is indeed very low, but any quelled road noise is replaced by that horrific grating of an engine noise.

The CVT is garbage. Instead of putting the revs right at the powerband as soon as you hit the gas, the revs slowly creep up to around 5500rpm. So you're constantly waiting for power. You can choose manual mode, but it shifts at 6000rpm whether you want it to or not. Worst of all, it shifts as if it has a manual transmission with a clutch on its last legs. The revs just slowly drop like the clutch is slipping into the next gear.

At no point did the car ever feel powerful or accelerate briskly. The speedo needle just slowly climbs. I'd feel nervous merging onto a highway with this car.

The handling leaves a lot to be desired. It could be hurt by the Bridgestone Turanzas, but it understeered profusely. It feels way too big and heavy to enjoy on a twisty road.

The interior is packed full of useless and confusing buttons. I didn't bother to mess with them, because I had no clue what most of them did.

The most annoying thing about the car, as I've said before, is the electric parking brake and the MPG gauge. I cannot describe in words how irritating it is to watch the MPG gauge constantly go up and down as you're driving. And the electric parking brake is quite simply the stupidest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life. You push the button in to engage it, and pull it out to disengage it, but ONLY if your foot is on the brake pedal and ONLY if the ignition switch is in the on position.

This car does nothing for me except confirm even more irrevocably that the Subarus I had an affinity for since my childhood are dead.

I'll go on this rant one more time, as again, I've already repeated it ad nauseam and feel like I'm wasting my time saying it over and over again. After this, I won't discuss new Subarus again. Our generation of Subarus and older are the only ones I'm interested in anymore.

Subaru used to be a unique car company to me. Their cars weren't attractively styled, nor were their platforms revolutionary. No, the boxer engine and AWD aren't unique to Subaru (Porsche, VW, Alfa Romeo). But they one-upped those cars by making the drivetrain easy and affordable to service. Furthermore, they were also a lot more robust than many other cars.

Subarus used to intrigue me. As a kid, I still remember two Subaru hatches on my neighborhood street, an EA71 and EA82 hatch, and I'll never forget how those cars just somehow caught my attention. They were just... different somehow. And most intriguing of all... they just kept going.

Now they're just like everything else. I can't turn around at a car meet without running into three WRX/STis. Virtually everyone looking for accessories for a Tribeca is a pretentious and snobby scrotebag. In fact, I can already pick out with incredible accuracy what cars people drive when they show up to my parts counter. Anyone with a tilted hat, or a fluorescent-colored iPhone implanted on the side of their head, or Viacom/AberZombie and Bitch/Banana Insertion/whatever logos jizzed all over their clothes... they almost always have STis or Tribecas. On the occasion I'm wrong, it's a Mazdaspeed3.

I actually dread saying I own a Subaru now, simply because I automatically get associated with those morons when I say I do.

Now with this car, they're like the nerdy kid in school who finally convinced their parents to buy them the same Nike shoes that everyone else is wearing (LOOK, BMW people, we have an electric parking brake too!)... only to find that they just ruined the fad for everyone else, and now they're still just as nerdy, but now a copycat as well.

These new Subarus are becoming ungodly complex. They're styled either hopelessly bland, or in the case of this car, unabashedly ugly (I think I'd rather have the Alfa rip-off front end than the new Outback front end). They're not nearly as reliable as they used to be... I just carried over a EJ253 shortblock on a hand truck today for an 04 2.5RS. I've moved around almost as many Subaru shortblocks as I have RX8 engines. And that's a lot.

For the record, we've sold 4 `10 Outbacks in 7 days. So someone likes them.

I, however, am not in that group, and I'm proud of it.

Quite frankly, I was happy to get back in my subcompact and relatively-Spartan Fit after the test-drive.

tell us how you really feel.

Agree. I'm thinking of completely debadging the wagon or only having the model name on it when I finish the restoration to avoid the association.

Hmm.....Bummer.

Well written writeup, thank you.

I personally feel its trying to be a Lexus. If I were in the market for a Lexus, I would buy a Lexus. Toyota has been doing the luxury thing long enough to get it figured out. Subaru doing the luxury line kinda feels like how Haundai tries to do the "faux" luxury thing. "Faux" is not "what makes a Subaru a subaru."

In researching luxury vehicles lately for my own personal reasons, I kinda figured it out. Luxury cars plummit in value because people who have the money to spend on them, buy the newest model every couple years to stay ahead of their douchebag peers. Nobody wants the model thats 5yrs old! They sell more, blah blah blah.

From a business standpoint, why would you NOT try to appeal to the luxury demographic? They dont care how it drives, its just gotta look good on paper you know?

Subaru gave us a few awsome cars and we'll always have them to play with. I still LOVE MK1 watercooled VWs. I cant wait to get another one for a toy.

I'm curious to see Fiat come into the states. Hopefully they bring in some fun cars for us enthusiests. I have great hope for Ford too, but Subaru is behind me now and I dont think I will ever purchase one again, just like how I would never purchase a Haundai.

Yes that is how I would describe when I test drove the car, but on the positive side it does get 30mpg possibly. Maybe for someone like most of us used to our extremely responsive have Subaru's it seems bad, but compared to other cars probably seems pretty damn good. Honestly when I drove it normal seemed fine, but that damn moaning when I gun it. Gears>simulated gears through a belt lol.

It makes me smile even more when people have to ask what my car actually is Then they automatically ask if I have an STi swap because of the way my car sounds at idle

I'd actually rather have a Genesis. The other good thing about luxury cars for the companies besides the higher profit margins, is less of a need for long-term reliability as the original owners don't keep them long and the high cost of maintenance for the next owners of more limited funds who choose dubious status over practicality only helps the dealers in parts and services and those people are happy to turn over their meager paychecks so they can say they drive a ___ while working a service job. Originally, luxury cars were about a lack of maintenance and long life, but people today prefer disposable while they parrot on about "being green".

Me, I just want a reasonably-weighted mid-size wagon that can go long term with limited maintenance. The size of wagon only some of the overpriced Germans make anymore, but nobody would use to haul sketchy cargo, lest they damage the interior. Luckily, I have the right car in the garage.

It's sad to me about Subaru as I currently only have 3 dream cars that aren't my own design and two of them are Subarus.

I do think the bitching works, though—look how many times they redesigned the Impreza. The results weren't much better, but they did respond. Then again, they either higher the incredibly incompetent to design their cars or they're just rubbing our noses in the ugliness as their sales increase anyway.

i'm kinda thinking subaru desighned this car for it's purpose.
older people that want gas mileage.

yes, it's not very attractive, but it's not scooped either. the scoop does make the car meaner.

in the turbo in the bottom pic, the car could use some love. how about we drop it 1 1/4" f and 1 in the rear. then we can throw on some hella flush deep dish wheels running mad camber. Custom bad ass front grill with ram air for the new front mounted turbo.

and most important, a little flare action on those flat fenders.

it's kinda like the ss's, they can be decent to look at with a little work, they can handle great with a little work.

and a 6mt ...

Thanks for confirming our suspicions.

AWD_addict wrote:Thanks for confirming our suspicions.

Canadiens, right? Whadayagunnado?

u fail, epicly

I was figuring as much. All good companies sell out at some point.

It's like Subaru turned up the suck

The only thing I'll say is it was a non turbo. Back in the day ... like the BC that we're used to we accept a four cylinder with 150hp give or take. Now a days we expect so much more from a car. When a civic with a 1.8 liter SOHC can put that HP out we want more of a car that is in the class of an accord. The non turbo Legacy is only 170hp.

I personally drove a GT Limited Turbo and thought it was fantastic. Almost 280hp ... great highway torque, amazing handling. I tried to get my girlfriend to get either that or the Forester with the same engine .... but we ending up getting an Acura RDX turbo @ 240hp because she liked the extra luxury. God I love her ... but sometimes I wish it was legal to smack a ho ... shit ... was that outloud?

But new cars are so fat and bloated they need that much horsepower just to get out of their own way or to make them remotely exciting since all that weight has disconnected them so badly from the driving experience. 170 horsepower in our cars would have been pretty damn fast for the day (and would hold their own today), but beside that, I'd rather drive a manual-steering 73 hp GL than most of the overweight, overstyled so-called sports cars that are out now. What good is speed if it isn't fun? Driving these pigs today is like having sex with his and her condoms and a Mormon chastity suit damaged just enough to get the job done. But I guess that's why I'm building my own.

evolutionmovement wrote:Driving these pigs today is like having sex with his and her condoms and a Mormon chastity suit damaged just enough to get the job done. But I guess that's why I'm building my own.

Wow ... that ... that just sounds horrible ... I just have no smartass remark for this ....

Now I will agree with you on that though. The cars are ALL getting much bigger but the engines dont seem to want to keep up. It's kinda like the economy ... prices keep going up fast, but peoples wages only change every so often.

I get people asking me all the time why I always drive older cars. I parents don't get it. They think I'm wasting my money when I put it into these areound 20 year old cars. But it's because nobody makes them like they used to. Even styling. I LOVE 80s/90s Japanese cars. They did so many inovative things, the styling is beautiful IMHO, and they're much more solid and reliable.

What would you rather get broadsided in or roll over several times? I'd take a newer car any day of the week.

If you want a car to be as light and nimble as our older cars while being at todays safety standards, you are going to pay for it. Actually, pay a lot for it.

Last time I checked, steel hasn't gone down in density. And to make today's standards, manufacturers have to use much more of it.

I'd rather be hit in a new car because they're good for nothing anyway and I'd rather see a dead new car than an old one. Otherwise, I don't care much about safety as long as the fuel tank's secure. Besides, in the case of my project vehicle, bowed frame rails that distribute the force towards the front and rear in place of structurally compromising doors (which all new cars have) as well as greater distance between driver and outer bodywork (just one of the beauties of central seating) should put me ahead of the tanks they make now in side impacts. But, lots of times it doesn't matter what you're in. I'd rather be able to avoid the accident altogether and drive on like nothing happened (as I've done). Living in fear isn't living. Pirates used to live by the code of a short life, but a good one. I guess I follow that as I'd rather enjoy the few moments I can than live a long boring life. There are few to no things I enjoy more than driving and new cars remove the pleasure from it. I never understood the people afraid of death, but who live boring lives—what are they afraid of losing? Not saying you're one of them—it's just a thing I've always pondered. They're the majority and I've never understood the majority, but it did lead to some of the basic tenets of the Evolution Movement and the "happy slavery" most people would fall into—the state would keep them safe and provide for them, and every day they'd do the same menial tasks with no ability for advancement, but they'd have security and very little stress. i don't know how I get started on this shit sometimes. We were talking about fat cars.

I'm restoring my wagon so I can get rid of my new(ish) car. The Mazda 3 is supposed to be fun. Only when compared to its contemporaries, but that's like saying banging a comatose chick is better than banging a dead one. No thanks to either.

There are better solutions than just making vehicles heavier, but nobody wants to pursue them.

You make some good points Steve.

If I was that worried about it, I would have waited until I could have afforded a new generation shell. But I didn't.


Being the geek that I am and trained in engineering in various disciplines, I just think about these things. I look at the B-pillars of our cars and cannot help but notice how flimsy they are compared to my mother's '03 Forester. That thing just feels much more solid to boot.

If I had the time, and had another donor car, I'd overlay more sheetmetal on the B-pillars. Not only for safety, but because these old cars are a wet noodle by today's standards. I did my little bit on the front end, but there is a ton more to be gained. Opera Tuning does really nice work in that regard, and I'd love to have the time and capital to pursue it. I would need a rotisserie and more than a 2.5 car garage to make it happen.


In the end, I'll probably just modify a harness bar to work along with the factory belts, which will add a significant amount of torsional rigidity and side impact safety. It's about all I can do without adding another year to the project.

I'll tell you what, I've been in ... oh ... about 8 accidents not counting motorcycle accidents. Everyone of them was in a early 90's Import. I've got T-Boned by someone doing 60 on the passenger side, T-Boned by someone doing 75 on the DRIVER side ... flipped a car doing 70 without a seatbelt on ... etc.

And the only time I really got hurt to speak of was in a motorcycle accident.

I'll keep my early model imports

I somewhat disagree.

Some of the bracing on the chassis may make it more rigid and a bit safer (your mom's 03 Forester also has the front U-shaped subframe the GD/GG Impreza has)...

... but the visible sheetmetal on new cars is generally thinner.

Like I just posted in the other thread, I got a new right rear quarter for my car in yesterday, and despite its age and the abuse it endured to get here, it's dent-free.

Sheetmetal for new cars never fares that well.

For example, we've got two hoods that both came in damaged off the truck, and the third to replace them was damaged as well, but our customer bought it anyway at a discount and fixed it himself, just to get the car finished.

RenMaxi, with the 91 turbo... his dad bought an 07 Legacy from us brand-new. The detail guy made a big mistake when he was washing it: he leaned against in with both knees and elbows. Two dents in the roof, two in the door.

My Honda? Wear the wrong color shirt in front of it and it will dent. I've already got three dings on it, and one of them is on the tailgate. I've yet to figure out where it came from.

Yeah, if it's a serious accident, the new car will be safer. But if it's a fender bender, the old car will incur less damage and be cheaper to fix.

I side with Steve as far as the philosophical part of it too. I'd rather take responsibility for my own safety.

My Mazda definitely dents easier—in spite of me parking it more carefully and it being much younger, it has several dents (one on a curved, part of the door panel, which should be stronger). The Subaru only has one and that's from a good hit it took while moving crap around the damn garage (already banged out). Never mind the bumpers being about a third the thickness (and yet, the smaller 3 weighs a little more).

The idea on my project vehicle is rigidity over safety, but the safety isn't so bad a side benefit. It's not like I avoid it safety, but I'm only willing to sacrifice so much (like paying more for a fuel cell with a bladder). A big problem is stinking doors—even convertibles would be plenty rigid if they didn't have doors to reduce body strength and the safety would be better and easier to engineer. Of course, climbing up and dropping into a vehicle is impractical for most, but it works for me (it's also easier and cheaper to engineer—nothing but win). I missed being able to walk over the top of my GL and drop through the open sunroof when leaving work back in the day (try walking over new cars).

Another thing I hate about new cars is the machine gun bunker window slits—how is not being able to see anything safer?! And it's difficult to put your arm on the door with the window open (it's the little things in life that I really enjoy).

The other thing is, too, maybe cars are too safe and reassuring. Would people text while driving if they were in Austin-Healey Sprites with '50's American pointed steering wheel columns? Then maybe just being more connected to the road would be enough and it's the isolation that lulls people into complacency more than the safety?