legacycentral bbs

ok so i have a question and it may sound like a noob question but im trying to help out my friend with his 92 Tleg with a 2.2T. He has an apexi avcr with a stock turbo and says "he can tune his car" with it. I told him that it is just tuning the boost in the different gears and rpm. Now he wants to get the TD04 turbo and use that to tune the car. I told him that he needs to get a wide band gauge and a piggyback to tune the car or a full standalone just something to tune the fuel. Just some clarification would be great.

-thanks

yeah

Only tweaking the boost duty cycle is not really tuning, IMO. Switching to a larger turbo is going to require the larger JECS MAF, which needs ecu tuning to compensate for the different airflow readings. Going to need larger injectors, since you'll likey max them out or go well beyond 80% IDC while boosting. Going to need to tune those larger injectors -- while the ECU can compensate over time, it takes hundreds and hundreds of miles... plus all the while you're on boost, it's going to be super rich -- in the 9-10 AFR.

Bottom line, aftermarket performance parts need tuning if you're going to really get anywhere.

ok cool so you would say that he needs JECS MAF, Wide band, and a piggyback or standalone to install the TF04?

sorry my friend is saying he only needs the turbo and he is good and i am just trying to get some info to show him saying that he needs these aftermarket items. Both me and my friend Frank (turbo_meow that has a TD04 and the MAF but is in serious need of tuning) were trying to help him and tell him that he needs these things before installing the turbo

thanks

Yes, get a WB (or just get the Revtronix chip).

I ran a TD04/TMIC/stock injectors/FDC/MBC @ 14psi for 2 months on the stock ECU before I got my Revtronix. The TD04 is reportedly not that much bigger as to require EM.

I would get the Revtronix Stage 2 TD04 chip before spending money on any other EM, but if your buddy has the patience to tune it.....go PB, etc.

Revtronix is also releasing a user-tuneable chip in the next 1-2 months, but I'd think you'd still want a WB w/that.
Td

P.s. Remember...the TD04 requires plumbing upgrades to fit.

He is definately gonna want an intercooler if he doesnt have one on there yet. I plan on throwing my TMIC and TD04 on at the same time, I won't need to throw the 440's on at the same time If I am not increasing boost correct?

Your friend sounds like a cocky moron.

Real tuning requires REAL tools.

I have an APEXI AVCR. It is NOT a tuning tool.

douglas vincent wrote:Your friend sounds like a cocky moron.

Real tuning requires REAL tools.

I have an APEXI AVCR. It is NOT a tuning tool.

Word! but all things considered, you can still make more power with the stock setup and a bigger turbo. The stock ecu will compensate for the extra air to a certain extent without a "retune". That being said a td04 is not really that bigger of a turbo...

magicmike wrote:

douglas vincent wrote:Your friend sounds like a cocky moron.

Real tuning requires REAL tools.

I have an APEXI AVCR. It is NOT a tuning tool.

Word! but all things considered, you can still make more power with the stock setup and a bigger turbo. The stock ecu will compensate for the extra air to a certain extent without a "retune". That being said a td04 is not really that bigger of a turbo...

I too have a avcr. Tell your friend to be careful, it's not a COMPLETE tuning tool. You can still "tune" your boost enough to fuck your motor.
I run a vf39, little bigger than td04, at ~14psi, fmic, walbro, stock pink injectors and a wideband to scope things out. it looks ok TO ME. Everybody has different results, and these motors are getting old and raggedy. So one persons fresh 22t is not going to run like my beaten 208k 22t.

ok sweet thats what i was wanting to hear lol. Yeah the TD04 is very similar its just a little bit bigger than the vf11 but the TD04 does spool up alot faster than the vf11.
The reason why turbo_meow needs to tune his car for the TD04 is because before the turbo starts to spool the A/F is lean around 16-17 but not all the time. under boost it reads anywhere from 9-12.

Yes it is possible to drive the car with out EM but it will just cause more wear and tear on the motor, and keeping in mind that there are 198,xxx miles one the motor, and the motor previously ran a 5 gal 91 pump fuel and the rest E85 mix. So it is really hard to say how long the motor will last in its current state

cups303 wrote: and keeping in mind that there are 198,xxx miles one the motor, and the motor previously ran a 5 gal 91 pump fuel and the rest E85 mix. So it is really hard to say how long the motor will last in its current state

Now mixing the fuels without the proper tune is what will kill the engine.
I havebeen doing a lot of reading up on the E85 guys on NASIOC, and while it has a different octane rating, ALL of their posts show you need MORE of the fuel ( most of these guys run 700-1000 cc injectors)- you by running this mix without tuning are no doubt probably running lean.

Fast way to kill an engine.

I know whose car this is...

It shouldn't be a big deal to run a TD04 up here in CO with stock EM, assuming the boost is set at a reasonable level. I ran my EJ20H/TD04 setup with no EM whatsoever for a few weeks, and at stock boost levels it was actually pretty rich with the 440's. Even the Hitachi MAF goes a lot farther at 5000+ feet of elevation than a lot of people might realize. With all this being said, however, I wouldn't even attempt any of this without a wideband O2 sensor installed.

(FWIW, I spoke to this same guy and told him at the very least to get a wideband.)

i told him the same thing and he said he does not need one