legacycentral bbs

Hey all, long time no talk.

After having my Legacy decommissioned for nearly 4 years, I decided to start driving it regularly again. About 6 months ago I got it up and running and everything has been fine.

The pat few months it's been showing signs of rough startup but it ultimately would fire up. A few days ago I had it idling and it starting to mis-fire like it was going to die. The RPMs would bounce up and down, but I just revved it up and took off; no prob. I moved it out of the drive way on Sunday and it had some trouble starting. It turned over about 5 times and then it ran.

Yesterday I tried to move it out of the drive way again and this time no dice. It now will not start at all. It will turn over but I can't make any fire. I was worried about a fuel issue but I smelled the tailpipe and I could smell gas. I knew gas was in the cylinder then.

Tonight I pulled the plugs and again verified fuel is entering the cylinders (gasoline coated plugs). I've done some tests on the ignition system and I think the coilpack is bad, but I'm not sure. The spec is .67 to .73 Ohms on the primary coil. However I'm getting 0 Ohms (short). I tried to verify this with my '03 Baja, but the primary coilpack connector has 4 pins and I can only get a reading off of two.

Can anyone say with certainty that my Legacy coilpack is bad? The repair manual says replace the coilpack if I'm not getting spec, is anyone else getting spec on their coilpack?

From what you are describing, it does not sound like the coil pack is good. I'd probably start with that.

I just called the Subaru dealership and they want $133 for a new coilpack. OMG. I was thinking like $50. Elsewhere online is no better, and this is for a "possible" solution.

junkyard or post a WTB ad at all the different subaru sites.

Went to a junkyard and got another coilpack. I took my DMM with me and checked the primary coil resistance on it. Same. I'm supposed to be getting some resistance but instead I'm getting 0 Ohms. They guy at the junkyard assured me that all their parts have been tested working.

It seems very weird to have two different coils come up with the same 0 Ohm resistance numbers. The guy said I could get my money back if it didn't work. I took it home and installed it. Still no fire.

I get a pretty strong fuel odor after trying to start it. Normal?

I'd like to cut the fuel delivery and test a plug for spark on the intake manifold, but I cant find the fuel pump relay. Does anyone know where the relay is?

Ok, I didn't bother disconnecting the fuel. I just went for it. Had my wife turn the engine over a few times while I grounded a spark plug to the intake manifold. I'm getting spark, but it seems to be intermittent and somewhat random.

It should be regularly timed, right? Maybe the igniter is bad?

Since there is a spark, shouldn't I be getting some sort of ignition? Like, the engine would start but I'd be getting mis-fires?

Maybe there's an air issue?

Anyone have any ideas?

I guess I can start replacing parts one by one. Igniter, cam sensor, and crank sensor...

I'd look at cam and crank sensors first. Both my 96 and 93 have had this happen.

Awesome. Thanks for the advice. I hope those sensors are not too tough to get to.

Ok, those sensors are rediculously expensive. Does anyone know if the '90-94 sensors are interchangable with '95 and newer sensors?

The cam and crank sensors have long wires that go to the back of the engine (on 1st gens) whereas 2nd gen sensors have about an inch of wire.

mike-tracy wrote:The cam and crank sensors have long wires that go to the back of the engine (on 1st gens) whereas 2nd gen sensors have about an inch of wire.

Is there any reason I can't splice a 2nd gen sensor onto my long wire? The question is, is the sensor itself different between the generations?

2nd gen sensors are 1/16 the cost of the 1st gens.

I was told just today that it wouldn't work when I was at the dealer, parts guy tried to do it on his sons 91. The 2nd gen legacy and those motor's cam and crank sensors only have 2 wires, ours have 3.

I pulled the crank sensor last night and what's interesting is that the third wire from the connector is terminated and non-functional. It is just shrink wrapped to the side of the other wires. I checked to see if it went to ground, but it doesn't. If you look at the sensor itself there is only two wires going into it. Maybe it is possible to splice a newer MY crank sensor?

I measured resistance on the two wires and got 1.1k Ohms. Im not sure what the spec is on this. I've been doing some web searches and I can't find anything.

Ok, I've tested both the crank and cam sensors for resistance and output voltage:

Crank: 1.1k Ohms and ~500mV AC output with engine turn over.

Cam: 1.5k Ohms and ~250mV AC output with engine turn over.


Does anyone have any specs on these sensors?? I can't find anything.

It would be awesome to make them work, I'll look in the manual lter and see if I can find anything.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... Wiring.zip


I think that on page 48 and 60 of that link you will find something.

Thank you! I really appreciate it. I will look through this today and see what I can find.

I've got an alias setup on my server so that link works on the bbs

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... and_Elect/

From the manual it looks like anything above 100mV is ok. So I guess the sensors are fine. Now I'm stumped.

Maybe the ignitor? That's about the last thing in the ignition system besides the ECU.

Thanks again for the PDF!

Your problem sounds very similar to mine. My car is actually stuck in a Starbucks parking lot right now, because after a month or so of rough starts and low, rough idle, it has decided to quit altogether.

The only thing that seems out of the ordinary is my ignitor, which I had to relocate when I installed the intercooler. I didn't to a great job cleaning up the surface its mounted to, so I'm thinking it's a grounding issue.

If I find anything before you get your problem solved, I'll post again, since it sounds like we may have the same issue.

Sorry to hear your Legacy is(was) stuck at a Starbucks. I guess I'm lucky mine at least made it home.

When I get some time, I'm going to check out the ignitor. The doc that biggreen96 posted has some steps for testing the ignitor. I'll update when I get a chance to test it.

This afternoon I decided to put the car back together and see if it would start. I put the sensors back in and put back together what I had dismantled. I pulled the negative battery cable again while putting things back together with the idea of resetting the ECU. I didn't end up testing the ignitor, but I pulled the connector off and put it back on making sure it was snug.

Once everything was ready I turned it over and it fired right up! It smoked like crazy. Thick white smoke came out of the tailpipe and then a little bit of blue smoke. It smelled really bad, like burning chemicals or tires. The smoke eventually thinned out and I drove it around the neighborhood. I then took it on the freeway and the engine felt as strong as ever.

Still not sure what the problem was...