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No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:33 pm
by skid542
I'm working on getting my car all tuned out and getting my AFR's where I want them. High load tuning is going well (AFR's stay in the low/mid 11's dipping into the 10's a little) but I'm having some trouble with the lower load and cruise load. One item of particular I've noticed and thought I'd ask about.

When I'm cruising at 35mph and just let off the throttle completely my AFR pegs out at lean after a brief moment. As soon as I touch the throttle it comes back to mid 12's (low/cruise load). My system has a lower limit on what signal it's sending to the ECU for the MAF signal so I know the ECU is seeing air.

So my question is, does our ECU cut fuel completely when the TPS is at idle and the VSS is showing speed, i.e. engine braking coming down a hill?

If this is true then I'm not going to worry about it. If it's not true, then I need to figure out what's going on.


On a side note, what AFR's are other's running at idle and cruise?

Many thanks in advance.

Re: No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:08 pm
by BSOD2600
This is normal. I notice it too.

(copy/paste full article in case site goes offline)
Electronic Fuel Injection - Operating Modes wrote: Under normal operation, the fuel ratio will be kept at 14.7:1 (for gasoline). This stoichiometric ratio will yield the most complete combustion and results in near peak exhaust gas temperature.

This allows the catalytic converter to operate efficiently and reduce emissions. Spark timing is at its minimum as the fuel mixture burns fastest at 14.7:1. The mixture is constantly adjusted using closed loop feedback from the oxygen sensor.

There are also other operating modes for certain engine conditions, described below.


Engine Cranking (not running)

Conditions:

* Engine speed below minimum for idle

While the starter is cranking the engine, the ECM will command a rich fuel ratio at 10:1 and less. On cars with distributors, the ECM will not have control of the spark timing and it will default to the base setting (position of the distributor cap). Once a minimum engine speed is reached, the ECM will transition to Warm-up Mode.


Warm-up

Conditions:

* Low engine run time
* Low coolant temperature

For a short time after the engine has been started, components are cold and need time to reach operating temperature. More fuel is added to aid combustion as the cold mixture will not burn completely. The slow-burning cold and rich mixture will require more spark advance to extract as much energy as possible. Once the oxygen sensor and coolant have reached operating temperature, the ECM can switch to Normal Mode with closed loop control.


Lean Cruise

Conditions:

* Vehicle speed above minimum (typically highway speeds)
* Constant load (little acceleration/deceleration)
* Low to medium throttle

Some ECM’s have the capability to operate under a Lean Cruise Mode. While the engine is operating under steady conditions (usually while driving on the highway at steady speed) the fuel mixture can be leaned out improve fuel economy. The fuel ratio can be leaned past 20:1 depending on how much spark energy the ignition system can deliver. Lean operation will lower engine temperature and reduce combustion speed. As a result, the ECM will advance the spark timing to minimize the power reduction. Vehicles which use a narrowband oxygen sensor will typically intermittently switch back to Normal Mode update the fuel correction values.


Power Enrich

Conditions:

* Heavy engine load
* Throttle position above threshold

Under heavy acceleration, the ECM will enter Power Enrichment Mode. This is to increase the power output of the engine while preventing excessive combustion temperature and pressure which could cause detonation. More fuel is added until the ratio is in the range of 12.5:1 – 13.8:1. This mixture is best for maximum power. The extra fuel cools the combustion chamber while the conversion of hydrocarbons to carbon monoxide (CO) releases more energy than conversion to carbon dioxide (CO2). Spark timing can be advanced to extract more power, but sometimes detonation will occur before peak power can be achieved. In this case, decreasing the engine’s octane requirement or using higher octane fuel will allow more spark advance and therefore more power.


Deceleration

Conditions:

* Throttle closed
* Low engine load
* Engine speed above idle limit

Under engine deceleration, no power is necessary so fuel ratio can be leaned out and eventually the fuel injectors can be turned off completely. Spark timing is set to transfer combustion heat to the rest of the engine to slow heat loss instead of expelling it out the exhaust. Deceleration mode will eventually be disabled under prolonged deceleration to prevent the engine from cooling too much, which would require another warm-up period.

Re: No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:22 am
by skid542
Thanks for the response.

I know what cars typically do, but I was wanting to verify what our cars do. From your experience it sounds like that our cars will shut off fuel completely.

Does anybody else have any other thoughts, comments, or experiences with out cars?

Also, still wandering about what our cars run stock AFR at idle and light cruise.

Thanks.

Re: No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:59 am
by 93forestpearl
I can't say about the OEM ECU. but cutting fuel on decel like that is desirable. I turn that option on in my Link (Overrun fuel cut).

Re: No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:19 am
by IronMonkeyL255
I am still running the stock ECU and my wideband shows the exact same behavior. Only time it doesn't is right after startup.

Re: No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:57 pm
by BSOD2600
skid542 wrote:Also, still wandering about what our cars run stock AFR at idle and light cruise.
ARF digital gauge moves around a lot, but it's basically around 14.7 both during idle and light cruise (aka 5th and flat highway driving). Earlier Revtronix chips were suppose to run it a little leaner for both idle/cruise.

Re: No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:15 pm
by Legacy777
I'll second/third the comments about the deceleration fuel cut. It's normal.

And as for normal cruise, you want it around 14.7.

Re: No Load Fuel Cut??

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:34 pm
by kimokalihi
That means my ECU was dead on for cruising even with STI injectors and TD05. Nice.