legacycentral bbs

I've been reading a lot about all kinds of varieties of subs having clutch chatter at all different mileages. The 1990 Legacy wagon I just bought does it when I'm not revving the engine enough, or let out the clutch too quickly. I'm used to a 93' Eurovan which hardly needs to be given any gas at all and never chatters unless my wife nearly stalls it...

Anyway when I drive the Legacy I rev to about 1500-1800 rpms to get a smooth takeoff. Anything under this and I get chatter. I tested for torque bind / CV issues before I bought the car. I also had a local shop take the car for a spin and go over it on the lift. They said it was in great shape. Shifts are smooth and I don't have any slipping at takeoff, or rolling on it in any gear.

Is this a normal occurence for this setup? Or does it mean that I'm in for a clutch replacement in the not so distant future? I'm also getting a funny chirping noise from somewhere in the left of the car in front of the drivers area when the car chatters. I notice this even when I'm off the clutch and turning into a driveway or something at very low speeds. Anytime the car bogs down a bit I hear it. May be unrelated, but thought I would mention it. I never get the noise when the clutch pedal is out, so I don't suspect this is the throw out bearing noise I've also been hearing about. Almost reminds me of some sort of mount squeaking...

Thank you in advance,

WB

From my experience, clutch chatter can be from the type of clutch or driving style. The clutch may be fine, but it has chatter. If you can live with it, it's probably ok.

The chirp sounds like it's something different than the clutch. It may be something in the suspension. I'd try bouncing on the car while it's stopped and see if you can reproduce the chirp. this may help pin point the problem to suspension or not.

Good idea. I've tried to think on how I could pinpoint it but I can only make it happen when I'm driving. Short of climbing on the hood with my wife in the drivers seat... bad idea maybe. I'll bounce it around a bit and see what I can find.

I've got my Chiltons coming from my Pop's house this week to help me troubleshoot my issues. Are the motor mounts in these easy to replace? Loosen bolts, raise engine slightly, replace? I've done trans mounts but not engine before.

Thanks,

WB

Yeah the engine mounts are pretty straight forward to replace. You should also loosen the pitch stop mount at the top of the engine when you jack up the engine so things don't bind.

Well I was reading what Josh wrote about making sure to pull off the pitch stop when attempting to replace worn motor mounts. I didn't have a clue what a pitch stop was. So I downloaded some info and found some diagrams of it. It made me think that my squeking noise was coming from that direct location.

I went out to the Sub and pulled the front and rear mounting bolts for the pitch stop. I noticed that one side of the back of the pitch stop and one side of the front of the pitch stop were shiny. Like they had been rubbing metal on metal. I cleaned up the mounting areas, greased the pitch stop mounts inside and out and remounted the pitch stop.

Drove the car and my noise is totally gone. I also am not noticing any significant shudder unless I really keep my revs low when pulling away. Thanks for the roundabout genius Josh! I do have a few other questions though.

First off the pitch stop is supposed to be offset right? Mine isn't straight at all, it has an angle to it. Maybe something like a 30 degree offset.

Second the front mounting bracket (attached to the engine) for the pitch stop has slightly elongated holes in it. It seems like either movement from the engine has elongated these holes, or they are elongated to allow slight movement in the front mount. Any ideas?

Third I was going to replace my motor mounts, trans mounts and pitch stop mounts. Now that this has cleared up the symptoms I was worried about should I still drop the $310 to do this? I'm not noticing major vibrations at idle and now the shutter is 90% gone!

Thanks,

WB

wbvolvo240 wrote: First off the pitch stop is supposed to be offset right? Mine isn't straight at all, it has an angle to it. Maybe something like a 30 degree offset.

Second the front mounting bracket (attached to the engine) for the pitch stop has slightly elongated holes in it. It seems like either movement from the engine has elongated these holes, or they are elongated to allow slight movement in the front mount. Any ideas?

Third I was going to replace my motor mounts, trans mounts and pitch stop mounts. Now that this has cleared up the symptoms I was worried about should I still drop the $310 to do this? I'm not noticing major vibrations at idle and now the shutter is 90% gone!

1. Offset? Not sure I understand. Possibly bent?
2. Yes, it's supposed to have elongated holes.
3. I wouldn't spend the money.

The pitch stop mount should pretty much be in line with the chassis. Here's some pics of the one on my car.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... P_6911.JPG
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... P_6909.JPG
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... P_6908.JPG

If it's bent, you may have some issues with your motor mounts. If you can take a picture, that would help.


Also, just to let you know, I had run into a similar issue after my AWD & 5spd swap. I forgot to tighten the chassis end of the pitch stop mount and it rattled. I finally figured it out and got rid of the rattle.

Here's pics of the pitch stop mount.....it's definitely bent.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... _stop1.jpg
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... _stop2.jpg
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... _stop3.jpg

Wow... that's very bent! In that case, I would take a look for ripped engine or trans mounts...

Updated with more pics

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... pitchstop/

It looks like the engine and chassis line up ok.

Yeah, that looks like something pushed the engine back or it was jacked up under resistance without the pitch mount removed and that bent it.

I didn't even have to give mine gas off idle to start—I'd just smoothly lift my foot off the clutch. I wonder if that bent mount is a clue to damage that caused something to be misaligned somewhere.