Acts like it is running out of gas

[maria24017]

We got the legacy reassembled yesterday. We had to pull the engine and replace the torque converter seal.

The car now acts like it is running out of gas. You can try accelerating and it sputters. It will only go 5 miles an hour or 20 (Pretty scary trying to cross lanes of traffic). After doing that for a few seconds it will suddenly jet up past 40mph. My father said it was probably water somewhere interfering with it getting fire, since we pressure washed everything. We unplugged the plug wires from both ends, sure enough one of the top ends had water puddled in it. But drying it didn't help any. The car has run and gotten plenty hot to burn off any water that would be elsewhere.

Any ideas as to what the problem may be?

[maria24017]

The coil pack wasn't plugged in completely. Fixing that seemed to have helped a little. We also soda blasted the spark plugs. The thing about them is even though they have only been in there for two or three months they looked older than the old ones did. But they looked normal.

We also tried spraying brake cleaner around the coil pack, just to make sure that it wasn't cracked. If it was the brake cleaner would have ignited. Brake cleaner was also sprayed around all the vacuum lines to check for leaks.

It is doing better but still isn't right. It is doing ok at 25 and 30 but it hesitates getting up to that point. Below that and it just doesn't feel like it has any power at all. I have gotten it up to 45 or 50 so far and it seems fine there, but haven't gotten it onto the interstate yet. I am guessing it is a low rpm thing but I can't give any numbers on that because the gauge doesn't work

[vrg3]

You'd tell us if the check engine light was on, right?

Assuming it's not, you might benefit from clearing the ECU at this point because it might have learned some weird fuel trims during the rough running.

[maria24017]

Oops... I meant to.. But it has been on since we got the car. Although the car is old Advance can read it, right?

[vrg3]

That was key information to leave out!

Advance can't read the codes, but you can. Check out the stickies in the Engine forum.

[Legacy777]

I'm going to move your thread to the engine forum.

Try making sure all the water is out of the connectors and spark plugs, wires, etc. That can really play havoc with things.

Check the ECU for codes via the instructions on my site and let us know what comes up.

www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/engine.html

[maria24017]

22, Knock sensor and 35, in inoperative Canister purge solenoid valve.

The knock sensor has a grey plug.

Would either of these cause the mentioned problems?

[maria24017]

Legacy, we dried out all the water from the plugs, wires and connectors. The car has also been driven 20 or 30 miles so it probably got hot enough to dry anything that was left

[Legacy777]

I don't think either would cause the severity of the problem you're seeing. I would recommend however replacing both sensors. The knock sensor had an updated design. The old one would get cracks in the plastic housing. The canister purge solenoid is an emissions related thing, but sometimes can cause odd things to happen with the ECU.

[maria24017]

I saw that about the knock sensor as soon as I found legacy central. Is that something that subaru replaces for free? like a recall?. No big deal if not, ebay is $15.

It is a pain seeing the price of the solenoid though. Looking at around $100 for it

[Legacy777]

No, Subaru doesn't replace it for free. The canister purge solenoid is rather expensive new. You could try getting a used one, but it's kind of a common failure point, so it could go again in the future.

[jp233]

20 or 30 miles won't necessarily burn off any water, unless the water has somewhere to go. I learned my lesson pressure washing an engine when some water got stuck in the coil-over plug areas on a Toyota Corolla. It knocked and stumbled and was really bad, even though I had driven it 50+ miles easily. The water had seeped down in the plug holes and went crazy. I never pressure wash engines anymore, only the body/frame stuff in the engine bay, and I don't use the hi-pressure washer anymore, just a little cleaner wand thing attached to an air compressor. Brake cleaner is the best at degreasing and cleaning engines, and it dries immediately.

If the plug wires are dry and clean, plugs, and all the wires -- then you may want to keep looking at the hoses. Don't forget to check your grounds. And also look at the intake stuff -- if the MAF harness isn't plugged all the way in or the connector is dirty, the engine will run like dog doo.

The knock sensor definitely can cause trouble. Also, if the TPS was messed with?

I've found on both my cars, which have both had fits with the code 35 canister purge valve solenoid - that neither affected driveability or fuel mileage. And both would basically only turn on the CEL after being re-started when the engine was hot.

[Legacy777]

jp233 has a good point about the water. I used to work at a detailing shop and after pressure washing the engine bay some cars would run like crap. We used compressed air to blow water off all the connectors, out of the spark plug holes, etc.

You could try disconnecting some of the electrical connectors to check for water/moisture.

[maria24017]

I ordered the knock sensor.. It should be here within a few days.

I will try looking at the car here shortly and see if I can find water anywhere. I will also check for dirt, which is one thing.. There was a ton of junk in the plug of the canister solenoid, I unplugged it and a bunch of stuff fell out of it. For the time being the check engine light isn't on. I didn't reset it or anything, it has just always been something that cut off occasionally.

Jp, you were talking about high pressure washes, the pressure washer he used was only 1400 psi. I still know it isn't great, I just didn't want you to think we used some crazy pressure on it. My father is pretty gutsy with the things. After he changed the torque converter in his truck he pressure washed the engine and whole truck with a 3000 psi steam jenny. He ended up blasting the 4X4 sticker off of it which peeled the paint down to the primer. So I'd hate to know what that does to an engine.

As far as the TPS, I have no idea. My father is now out of town on business so I can't even ask about it. I was sick when he disassembled everything on top of the engine. I just helped with pulling it and putting some of the stuff back together.

[maria24017]

Checked MAF plug and blew it out, also cleaned the sensor. Went through and checked every plug I could see.

Nothing.

While I was messing with stuff I also blew out the air filter, there was a lot of small leaf chunks in it.

I know it is really a process of elimination but this is really starting to get to me. I was really looking forward to getting my baby out on the road for some trips. Not happening yet.

The engine light is still off. I know the knock sensor still needs replacing but I wonder if it ran a code 35 since the plug seemed to be loose (thought I mentioned it was loose already, but don't see it anywhere)

[jefferson]

Did the car run fine before you pressure washed it? If it did then you have injected water somewhere it shouldn't be.

Jeff

[jp233]

I would replace the spark plugs first, that's an $8-10 thing. Even if they look decent, one might be fouled although I would think it would throw a CEL.

Reset your ECU all the way, start fresh on that. $0.

Cleaned your MAF? What did you use to clean it...

1400 psi is still a lot when it comes to small parts that are sensitive to water (electrical, pneumatic, etc). There could be some ill effect from that.

Have you looked at the O2 sensor at all?

All connectors are clean with bare metal from the battery, alternator, etc?

[Legacy777]

I think you're on the right track with checking all the electrical connector plugs. Like the canister purge solenoid, junk may be in there and not making good connection.

Another thing you can try is spraying a fine mist of water around the coil, spark plug wires, etc when the engine is running. Do this at night, and if one of them is bad, you'll see/hear an arc jumping.

[maria24017]

I cleaned the MAF sensor with brake cleaner.

I took the car out today and it is acting a lot better.. Only hesitation I got out of it was in a parking lot. I will continue using it to see if that improves.

On a side note... It now has two new back tires. I was reading something the other day about someone picking up a razor blade, I wondered how the heck that was possible. Then it happened to me. The other tire was about shot so I just got both

[Legacy777]

Are they the same brand as the front tires?

Having different brand or tires with different diameters can cause problems with the AWD system. Subaru says that all four tire's circumference should be within a 1/4" of each other. The easiest way to measure this is to take a string or one of the flexible tape measures used for clothing and drive over it. Take the rest of the string/tape measure and wrap it around the tire tread to measure the circumference. Do this for all four tires and compare.

[maria24017]

It is bfgoodrich touring all the way around. I will measure once it cools down some outside.

I know about the issues with tire sizes and torque bind so I'll definitely check it out

[jp233]

Also, I've found WD40 to be great at cleaning out and lubricating electrical connectors. Just a quick spray then wipe it out and blast with compressed air to make sure all the pins or spades are clean and dry.