legacycentral bbs

Yeah, that's pretty much what it is. Installing the brakes I can do, but fine detail work like rebuilding the calipers seemed better to leave to a professional.

Installation - Finally

Yesterday we did installation. It was freezing.

Here is the bracket and caliper finally back together.



And loaded with pads



When we started at it, two of the lug nuts on the driver's side front wouldn't come off. This was an ominous start. When we got them off, with a ton of effort and an impact gun, we found that who ever had put them on last had torqued them on crooked, which must have taken a decent amount of effort. So two studs and two lug nuts needed to be replaced.



Fortunately stud replacement is fairly simple. After they were back in, we could get to work on the actual project. Here you can see that the dust shield has been hammered flat to fit around the new rotor.



The new rotor.



New lines.



INSTALLATION!





Fronts done.





It fills out the wheel pretty nicely



After the fronts we continued on to the backs.

Rear brackets and calipers.





Here's the set loaded with pads.



On the front I forgot to take a before picture. Fortunately I got it on the rear.





Old rotor.



It took a bit to realize that the ebrake was drum style, so getting the first rotor off kind of sucked until I released the ebrake. This dust shield was also too substantial to hammer flat.



Fortunately Mike informed me it was spot welded on. So we were able to get it off pretty easily. It also left a large plate that was most of the shield, which was really nice.

The removed shield.



New rotor finally on.



Installing lines.



Completed installation.







Wheels filled out.

After the installation, we bled everything. I'm not noticing too much of a difference, and there's more travel in the pedal than I expected, about the same as stock. I realized I didn't account for ABS, so I went out for a drive to try and lock up the ABs to cycle it. I haven't had a chance to bleed it again, so hopefully that's all it was. I was expecting a lot more stopping power, so I'm concerned something went wrong. How much travel should the pedal have? I guess the pads and rotors might need to wear in a little bit as well...

Did you break the pads in? You have to go make ze

Several emergency stops from 60 to 30 and then a bunch from 40-10. You want to brake as hard as yoy can without locking then up.

You might have a bit more pedal travel simply because now your master cylinder is pressurizing more volume with the same piston size. Still, you will have more ultimate braking force available to you and less heat buildup.

Nice journal & pictures of the install! It looks like they came out good.

Regarding the front dust shield.....there's no reason to flatten it. The rotor has no interference or issues with being larger than the dust shield. So, just a comment for anyone looking to do this in the future.

Regarding the pedal travel and stopping power. I think this is a common misconception most people have....and that going with larger brakes will drastically change the stopping power of the vehicle. Unless you go with some crazy performance pads or a true big brake kit, you will likely not notice a difference in stopping power/feel for every day driving. Where you will notice a difference is if you push the brakes hard past what the older/smaller brake system could handle in terms of heat capacity and ultimately brake fade & performance.

As mentioned, you need to bed the brake pads properly. Each manufacture has slightly different procedures, but the procedure Kimo mentioned is ok to follow. Typically you want to start off with several (around 4-5) medium stops from 60-30, and then drive around to allow a little time for the brakes to cool. Then repeat the process one more time with increasing brake pedal force, a cool down, and then at least one final time with again increasing brake pedal force.

Some pads tell you take it "easy" for the first couple hundred miles....so it really depends on the manufacturer's recommendations.

Regarding the pedal travel. If you increased the overall brake piston volume size/capacity compared to the old system, you will have more pedal travel. There's just no way around that. Seeing that you have ABS, you should have the largest 1-1/16" bore MC, so if you still think the travel is excessive, try bleeding the brakes again once you've driven around.

BTW, I like the pixelated face to protect the innocent

Looks good.

After a bed in they should get grabbier. There's some good information straight from stoptech here:
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-suppo ... procedures

Since you've increased the piston size there will be a little more travel but since you have the 1 1/16 mc it shouldn't be too bad. I found that a master cylinder brace helped a bit.

Maater cylinder brace helped on 1st gen? I have the grimmspeed and it didn't make any noticeable difference and I was told the first gen doesn't have the flex in the firewall that the later cars have.

kimokalihi wrote:Did you break the pads in? You have to go make ze

Several emergency stops from 60 to 30 and then a bunch from 40-10. You want to brake as hard as yoy can without locking then up.

Nah, I'm still working on it. Today the pedal felt a bit stiffer, but i locked up the abs again and it felt a little more limp again. Probably my imagination. We're bleeding again tomorrow. So hopefully that resolves it.

Alphius wrote:You might have a bit more pedal travel simply because now your master cylinder is pressurizing more volume with the same piston size. Still, you will have more ultimate braking force available to you and less heat buildup.

If the pedal travel isn't the same, it's a little less. Fortunately it's not more, i think. But yeah, it's starting to feel like it's stopping better.

Legacy777 wrote:Nice journal & pictures of the install! It looks like they came out good.

Thanks Josh, i typed it with one hand as the other one was soaking in epsom salt. slight infection. Good times.

Legacy777 wrote:Regarding the front dust shield.....there's no reason to flatten it. The rotor has no interference or issues with being larger than the dust shield. So, just a comment for anyone looking to do this in the future.

Maybe my shield on the front was bent in already. We rotated the rotors before we flattened it and heard some rubbing, which prompted us to flatten it out.

Legacy777 wrote:Regarding the pedal travel and stopping power. I think this is a common misconception most people have....and that going with larger brakes will drastically change the stopping power of the vehicle. Unless you go with some crazy performance pads or a true big brake kit, you will likely not notice a difference in stopping power/feel for every day driving. Where you will notice a difference is if you push the brakes hard past what the older/smaller brake system could handle in terms of heat capacity and ultimately brake fade & performance.

Good to know! Thank you for your input and assistance through this process!

Legacy777 wrote:BTW, I like the pixelated face to protect the innocent

Innocent or guilty, either or. Gotta love free photo editing software!

jamal wrote:Looks good.

After a bed in they should get grabbier. There's some good information straight from stoptech here:
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-suppo ... procedures

Since you've increased the piston size there will be a little more travel but since you have the 1 1/16 mc it shouldn't be too bad. I found that a master cylinder brace helped a bit.

Thanks Jamal! Couldn't have done it without your help! I'll check out those bedding papers. Thanks for providing them.

I'm curious about the MC brace as well. Do you have pictures and the model?

This is actually a great opportunity to thank everyone who helped me on this. I couldn't have done it without tons of help from lots of great people.

Josh for constant patience and fantastic information
Kimo for input and suggestions
Gabe for suggestions
Jamal for information and assistance purchasing parts
Beatersubi for recommendations and additional information
SILINC3R for moral support and suggestions
and of course Mike for finding parts for me and always being willing to come out and help do the work.

lol I doubt I helped any but you're welcome. Thank you for gathering all this information I wasn't looking forward to researching myself haha.

You're welcome for the help! Thanks for compiling all the pictures and the journal.


Here's some info regarding the MC brace. I'm running the MRT brace.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2065
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... housandths

The brace cut the flex in half, but we're talking about 50 thousandths to 25 thousandths.

originalcyn wrote:

Alphius wrote:You might have a bit more pedal travel simply because now your master cylinder is pressurizing more volume with the same piston size. Still, you will have more ultimate braking force available to you and less heat buildup.

If the pedal travel isn't the same, it's a little less. Fortunately it's not more, i think. But yeah, it's starting to feel like it's stopping better.

The pedal travel may feel less, but since you know you increased your volume requirements, there's no possible way the travel would be less.

The reason I point this out is because pedal travel is one of those things that is a "feel" type of preference and HIGHLY subjective. Everyone's going to have a different opinion on whether there's more or less travel and whether they like the feel or don't like it, etc.

So bottom line....I wouldn't get too concerned about the travel. If the pedal feels alright to you....then don't worry about it.

Legacy777 wrote: The brace cut the flex in half, but we're talking about 50 thousandths to 25 thousandths.

If anyone would put a micrometer on the M/C and measure flex before and after an install, it would be you, Josh.

If the system had air in it before the changeover, it would definitely feel better after a good bleeding.

Bled the brakes again today, got a decent bit of air out of the system. Everything feels a bit tighter so that's good. I'm working on the bedding of the pads, but I have trouble doing 5 or so 60-30 stops in a row. finding a place to do that is a lot harder than I expected!

beatersubi wrote:If anyone would put a micrometer on the M/C and measure flex before and after an install, it would be you, Josh.

Would you expect anything less

My 96's brakes are jealous lol. Nice work, this and the swaybars look top notch!

Haha, thanks Mike. This is all your fault some how! lol.