legacycentral bbs

Edit:
*My angle on this post was not where i wanted it to be. Please ignore my idiocy here, see posts on down the line*

im not sure why, but i have a good 3 inches between the front wheels and the wheel well. Thats not the case for the back, and it looks well, goofy. I wanted to get opinions on cutting about 1 inch off my springs, i know to do it from the bottom, but do i need to remove the strut to perform such an operation? @ill this preclude me from getting agx struts? How will this small surgery affect my handling? A little negative camber cant hurt....

There are three problems normally associated with cutting springs. All of them can be dealt with, and all are dependent on how much you cut.

The first is that it will decrease the overall height of the spring assembly. If you cut too much, then there's a possibility that the spring might dislodge from its seating position when the strut assembly bounds. Not good. (also, when you life the car up, the spring might fall out of the seat as well). Not sure how much you can cut before this happens.

The most commonly associated problem with cutting the springs is that it effectively increases the spring rate. How much the spring rate increases depends on the amount you cut off. Again, there are some intricate equations to figure this out, but you will need some aftermarket struts to control the high spring rate.

The third problem MIGHT be that the spring might not sit on the perch itself. The perch is notched allowing for the end of the spring to sit against. If you don't cut off a full coil, the spring might not even sit on the perch.

Pretty much all subarus have the larger fender gap......even with lowering springs.

Just learn to live with it......because I can't recommend you cut your springs......not with the type of suspension we have. If you want, get some spring clamps, and clamp two coils together which will effectively lower the ride height.

Hey Legacy777, you know anyone that has used those coil clamps? Just wondering how safe those things are too.

I think you pretty much would have to cut it in full-turn increments to have it fit in the notches in the bottom of the strut. The problem is, Subaru springs have very few turns at very high pitch. Cutting a single turn might lower you a couple inches, which is pretty extreme. The spring rate and decreased spring length would mean you'd need a different strut, one which you might not even be able to find off the shelf.

In the end, you're probably best off getting a set of H&R or Eibach springs. They're designed by engineers and whatnot. I think subyluvr2212's got an extra set of H&Rs he's been trying to sell.

Yes, I still have the H&R's, and somebody confirm this, it seems to me that you couldn't cut tapered springs, b/c then they wouldn't fit into the spring seats... if you cut say 2 coils off, you'd end up with a larger diameter, right?

Well, if they're tapered just at the top, you could still cut the bottom... Or are they tapered all along the whole length?

They're tapered from bottom to top.....however that's just in the rear......which is not really his concern.

the top of the spring is levelled off, effectively making the top flat. You can cut part of a coil, rotate the spring, and still have it seat in the strut. The springs are under load even when you jack the car up (spring compressor necessary) One could take a spring off and see how tall it is versus a loaded spring, and that difference is the maximum you could cut without them falling out. Since say, Gr2's are stiffer, the springs would match them better than stock ones. Any second opinions?

I'd still not recommend doing this........I just looked at my old springs......cutting any part of that flat top part will do nothing for lowing the vehicle.....it will just give you a less stable platform to hold the spring in the perch.

thats, true, but i didnt say to cut the flat top part. I said to cut the bottom, and then rotate the spring so that the new cutting fits in the strut. You dont have to cut an entire coil because the top is flat so it doesnt need to seat into anything.

I agree with you, i dont like tinkering with what is good engineering, and clamping/heating springs is a bad move. But from a strictly academic standpoint, im right, right?

I think that a 1/2 coil cut and a set of gr2's would be an excellent setup, as they would match eachother better than stock.

I'm not sure whether I should tell you guys this or not

When I picked up this car from Adam he told me he'd send me the set of rear TEINs that he didn't put on my car. Apparently, he didn't have the rear STi strut tops at the time he did the spring and strut install so he just cut down a half coil or so off the stock rear springs (so it would fit in the stock tops). I haven't been able to take the time to swap out the TEINs he sent so my car's riding on the stock cut springs. I can tell you this much, the spring justBARELY touches the strut top when the suspension is at full extension . . . so when the car's jacked up there's a possibility that the spring could fall out of the mount. Funny thing is, as you lower the car, the spring falls right into place.

Take this for what it's worth, the car rides like it's perfectly sorted with the struts and springs. I'm still not an advocate of cutting springs, but it's seemed to have worked in this application.

I'll have to take a look at my springs sitting on the porch and get back to you.

My whitelines really don't have much pre-load on them.....I really don't like it....but there's really nothing I can do about it.

yea, that was another thing i was wondering; how did engineered lowering springs cope. Appearantly they don't

Can't you buy a kit at pep boys that clamps your springs in place? I thought i saw that.

yea, that was another thing i was wondering; how did engineered lowering springs cope. Appearantly they don't

Some of them do and some of them dont. I know my eibachs had a progressive rate coil that was merely to keep the spring seated. As soon as the car was dropped to the ground the coils would wind, and collapse, making the effective spring rate just on the non-progressive rate part of the spring.

ive heard about those things you use to just clamp your car together... anything wrong with doin that? also how much can you lower the car like that with the stock shocks?

*in my best south park voice*

cuttings springs is bad, mmkay. You don't want to cut your springs cuz it'll screw up your ride, mmkay, cuz it'll be all bouncy.

Have you ever seen a honda or likewise driving down the street and it's just bouncing along like a pogo? that's what you get from cutting your springs, mmkay? mmKay, you'll also have to start worrying about damaging your OEM struts.

*south park voice done*

Some people will say "i've been doing it for years and have never had problems." To be as PC as possible; those people are.... umm... Uninformed, to say the least. It's just plain bad. Oh, and don't buy any of those "Universal Coil-Over kits" those suck too, i've used them before, VERY displeased.

Save your money, buy something good, don't phuck up your ride.

An easy way to tell if a civic has cut springs in the rear is to watch the line of the headlights, the more bouncy the more likely.

Ill try to find the link but I remember a page that measure the spring rates on some cut springs and they measured out to something like 900 pounds!!

Match that with stock struts that:
1. Are not designed for a 2 inch drop
2. Are not designed for a huge increase in spring weight

On a seperate topic, you will also notice that many of them DONT HAVE A REAR SWAY BAR!!! So you have a car that already has infinite understear, and they add a 24mm front bar with no rear bar. Many handle like crap because of this.

You know whats even worse? You can buy a kit that includes all mounts bushings end links and hardware for 150 dollars to retrofit the bar....

Please read what i said.

I never mentioned a 2 inch drop
I was talking about installing stiffer aftermarket struts at the same time.

I think some people are too opinionated to give an idea fair play.

Its unlikely i would cut my springs- i support doing it right as much as you guys. (there is no tuning and the mess-up factor is too high) But under the circumstances i gave, why not entertain the notion? How far off would it really be? Some people only care about looks,a la gc8 struts, maybe this would be good enough for them.

About the civics: at least in games you wanna have a uberstiff front end and a really softrear so you can slide the back around more quickly. The dynamics are different in a fwd car.

Really, all i want is to be able to crush squirels with my front bumper.

cut springs??!! OK, well i dont think so, whatever you do you are gonna have a scuse my french but a shit rigged car, subaru designed the suspention to be this way, the aftermarket company's design their parts for it to stay as close to stock as possible or cope with the change with better technology. to cut the springs is like building a replacement unibody out of wood!!

i know a guy with the exact cut spring set up as described before, huge front sway bar no rear sway bar, cut springs on all OEM equipment, you all know how much window is in the 90-94 wagons right? well imagine seeing an R33 front end with a feilds wide body and Carbon Fibre hood then seeing rear hatch and a huge H sticker in the window all in your rear veiw exiting a corner at 75mph!! thats what this sucker ass honda guy i know that tried to keep up with me did, all that aftermarket junk and he couldnt keep up with my STOCK subaru wagon!! i even got to drive this honda civic hatch earlier the same day and it is SICK!! you come into a corner and it is like impossible to corner with cut springs! it understeers so bad.

the ride highth is sweet looking but you better expect to loose all your handling a subaru is good for.

i dont condone cutting springs however if you really gotta have that LOOK or whatever then go for it, i will be the last to tell you i told you so cuz i already did.


cut away if you want the look, spent the money if you want the look and the PERFOMANCE.

sincerely,

ben

maybe im not being clear enough. Since you raise the spring rate when you cut, it would then be possible to calculate how much each amount you cut raises the spring rate. Therefore, you can match your springs to your struts. You have GR2s? well, they're 30% stiffer than stock. If you could figure out how much to cut to make your springs 30% stiffer, then you'd have a better matching set up. It'd take some math, but then, thats engineering.

I can't do this myself, i have tapered (same effect as progressive) rears in the back that are sagging about an inch. But i maintain that i have a valid point, and that it may be worth investigating if you have the open mind, math skills, and desire.

If you still think im a crackpot, please read the first paragraph again.

You're still a crackpot.

No cut springs for you!