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So... yeah. On my 1992, now that I have installed an A/C belt and can try it out... I find that my compressor smokes bad when I engage the A/C.

I suppose this means that there is still a charge somewhat in the system, if the compressor engages at all... and it does. I hear it kick in, I see the engine RPM change in reaction to the increased load, and I see my boost gauge read decreased vaccuum (-14 inHg with A/C on at idle, vs. -18 inHg with A/C off at idle), and then I observe smoke coming from the A/C compressor.

It continues smoking for a couple minutes after I turn the A/C off, as well -- then it calms down.

I am very unsure of how to proceed, but I'd like to troubleshoot this A/C system and get this car some climate control for summer comfort. It is currently still R12 / freon, and I am not against converting to R134a if I must (as I have no connections for any more freon), but I've always had a buddy to help and I really am lost here.


Ideas, thoughts, suggestions, tests I should perform and report back...?


Thanks guys!

Chris,

Where exactly is the smoke coming from?

Not from the belt; the belt is not slipping and appears to be moving correctly.

I'll see if I can get a video of it smoking, I can't really tell where exactly it's coming from other than "it's the compressor." I rather don't know what I'm doing with respect to air conditioning

(Needless to say, I've not let it run long enough to see if it gets cold - I've just been driving it with the windows down for now to flush out other issues that I know I will have to fix)

You need to know where the smoke is coming from in order to diagnose the problem. Is the compressor covered in oil/grease? If so it may be from that if the compressor hasn't run in a long time. It can get hot.

I'm now kinda leaning towards this latest suggestion, as the compressor is indeed caked with oily substances. Also, that's what it looks like - I took a video, anyone think this is anything other than caked-on oily residue burning off from years of not having used the compressor...?

In this video: A/C is engaged in the first ~10-20 seconds, runs for a bit, and begins smoking almost immediately - but you can't really tell since the A/C fan is also on, blowing all that smoke away quickly. Then, at about the 1:00 mark, I give the signal to turn off the A/C compressor and it becomes clear that it was smoking quite badly, It then continues to smoke for a couple mins after shutdown, presumably until the oil caked on it cools down enough to stop burning...?



Thoughts? Suggestions? Should I just run it as-is and see if it burns off all the residue, should I run it and see if it actually gets the air cold, etc...?

Ok.....that actually looks like the AC clutch.

The very front part of the AC pulley is not moving at any time. It should move. With the engine off try rotating it with your hand. It should rotate pretty easily by hand. If it moves freely then the clutch is probably toast. If it doesn't move at all, the compressor is seazed up and that is why the clutch is smoking.

Either way, you will likely need a new/another compressor. Some shops may be able to replace the clutch, however I tried doing that at one time and it didn't really work well. Also, you can try using a used compressor. I didn't have the greatest luck, but I think that may have been due to the oil I used on my conversion. After two failed compressors I went with PAG oil vs. esther when I converted to r134a.

Gotcha. Any subaru compressor or just 1st gen legacy? Turbo vs n/a compressors are identical? I may try the cheap route and try to find a junkyard compressor that turns freely ...ill have to convert to r134a anyway and ill look on here for some posts on that. Never done that. Is it possible for an amateur mechanic to charge the a/c system with stuff from autozone after it has completely discharged? Would the compressor even engage to pull in refrigerant?

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You need to verify that the compressor is frozen first.

There are two different HVAC systems on the first gen legacy, Calsonic & Diesel Kiki. You need to use the same brand. There are different part #'s between model years, however I think the compressors should be the interchangable up until 93. In 94 they went to r134a. The compressors are not turbo or non-turbo specific.

If you get the part # off the top of the compressor I can tell you what would most likely be compatible.

As for converting to r134a, check out this thread
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1083

You can do the prep work yourself if you are very thorough. You just need to make sure that a vacuum is pulled on the system for about an hour to get all the air & moisture out, and then charge the system. Once a vacuum is pulled you can charge the system yourself, however it really makes no sense for the mechanic/shop not to charge the system since they have all their gauges hooked up. Plus there's less chance for air to be reintroduced into the system.

Since you're already going to open the system to convert, please have your system evacuated with a recovery machine at a shop. R12 is an old school ozone-eater and in most states it's technically illegal to release refrigerants into the atmosphere. As mentioned before, it's also going to be pretty straight forward for a shop to charge your system with R134a once they evacuate and pull a vacuum.

Local shops around here charge about 70 bucks to evacuate and recharge, about 40 to just evacuate. A vacuum pump to pull the refrigerant is about $100 minimum so there isn't really any cost savings to DIY.

I still plan to replace the compressor and all o-rings myself... possibly even pull a vacuum on the system myself too.

I'll ask my mechanic how much he'd charge to evacuate the system, and then on a separate visit after I've replace the parts re-charge it with r134a.

(I still have to confirm the compressor is seized but I'm pretty sure that's the case)

Got the info, will post photos today with part numbers. My compressor is a calsonic.

It most definitely appears to be quite seized up.

Then again, for comparison, I am able to barley force my working compressor in my 94 to rotate by hand with the engine off...and not much. When you say "it should rotate pretty easily" this makes me think my 94's compressor isn't in the best of shape. How easily should it rotate?

I cant get the 92's compressor to rotate at all by hand. A friend suggested I try and get a wrench on there and a breaker bar to try and force the compressor to rotate backwards as it may just be stuck from years of nonuse. Is this even possible? I mean, whats the best place to try this and with what tool, any ideas?

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I can rotate mine by hand pretty easily. So yeah, even your 94 may not be in the best shape. It's usually a good idea to run the AC once a month to keep everything lubricated and working well. If the AC system is not used somewhat regularly then it could dry out and cause issues. Also, improper charge on the system could cause the compressor to be difficult to turn.

The compressor is seized....turning it by a wrench will do nothing but maybe dislodge it and send a bunch of crap into your condenser.

Typically if a compressor seizes up, the entire system needs to be flushed to get all the crud out of it.

Been discussing this situation (both the seized '92 compressor and the tough-to-rotate '94 compressor), and this is where we ended up. I'd like to run the following quote by you guys and get reactions and responses:

As far as the stuck compressor, just rock it back and forth to try to free it up. If it feels rough or hangs, most likely a paperweight. The other one, if turned slowly, should not really be that hard to turn. I don't know if those are swash plate compressors or piston and rod type. Swash plate ones can be worn to the point that they feel gritty when you rotate them. At that point, paperweight. I doubt you'd disturb any crud, but if you feel like you broke something when you rotated it, don't run it, disconnect the clutch wire so it can run. Need NOS to overcome the power drain of the AC. That's just the way it is. You can't really loosen up a binding compressor, again, will be a paperweight. It should be smooth and rotate pretty freely.

This is from my friend in FL, the ASE-certified master mechanic that has been a huge part of all my Subaru modifications that were done in that state (which is just about all of them at this point). Disregard the comment about "NOS" -- he loves saying that. I tend to agree with his assertions, but would like to see what you guys think.

Also, any ideas if our compressors are "Swash plate" or "piston and rod" type? And if there is an additive / oil I can add to my "failing" 94 compressor to help prolong its useful life or otherwise decrease the rotational resistance without causing problems down the line in other A/C components? (the '94 is R134a) Or should I just plan to replace this compressor in the near future as well...?

I think it's a piston & rod compressor and pretty much agree with his comments. There's really nothing you can do for the compressors. They sound done.

I think the compressor type is piston and rod, but you can show him these pics if you want to confirm.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... clutch.jpg
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... ressor.jpg

Gotcha... thanks! Ill have to see what I can find. I still have to post that label I took a picture of to see what might work for me.

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Here's the photos I took after finding and cleaning up the stickers / plates with info. Any suggestions as to where I might find a common junkyard or aftermarket compressor that would work well -- or if I should just go get a Subaru OEM compressor and how much more expensive it would be... if I can find a place to charge me up with R12 then I'm thinking I should not convert to R134a as I'm told to expect a converted system to cool less than I'd expect. Or, is this the time to get an R134a compressor and have the system evacuated real well so the oils don't mix? Do I need to change out the lines or condenser or anything else (other than the drier and o-rings, obviously) to go to R134a, or should I stick with R12?

Thoughts?

(The 1992's R12 compressor info)
Calsonic compressor 73011 AA090 (64690 45010)
Type V5-15c
Oil D90-PX 238cc (6.3fl oz)
Calsonic Ogura clutch NV5-203 DC-12V

Well that specific compressor came on the 92-93 model years. Even though the part #'s are different you could probably use a 90-91 model year calsonic compressor, but probably finding one from a 92-93 would be best.

If you were to buy a brand new compressor from Subaru, it's $450 at Subarugenuineparts.com The new part # is 73008AA710, and it will come with new hoses to the condensor & evaporator. The fittings at the compressor are different and this is why the hoses are different. I ended up buying a new compressor a couple years back after killing a couple used compressors because I didn't use PAG oil.

As to what direction to go, that's really up to you and how much you want to spend. If it were me, I'd flush the entire system out, and convert it to r134a with a used compressor using PAG oil. This is obviously the cheapest option, but it's uncertain what condition you'll get with a used compressor so it is a bit of a crap shoot.

A properly r134a converted system in the first gen legacy will out cool my original r134a system in my Impreza. So don't believe converting it to r134a will cause it not to cool as well.

14mm socket + 6" socket wrench + a little force = working R12 compressor!

I have A/C again! Neat! This compressor spins way easier now than my '94's R134a compressor. It doesn't blow ICE cold, and it was pretty cool out as it was, but it was definitely cooling. I observed the clutch engaging and the compressor spinning, no smoke this time (except the expected smoke from the cam or crank seal drip I've got going on in this car), and the idle increased from -18inHg to -14inHg.

...
Then, on my test drive, I had the A/C and headlights on the whole way... went to start it back up and she's dead. Had to jump it. Headlights + A/C = not charging battery, looked like 11 volts with that load, and then over 13 volts when I turned the headlights and A/C off (engine running). So either I have a bad battery, or hopefully not a bad alternator. Or possibly just need to really charge up this battery.... I opened the top caps to check the water levels, all are full. Battery appears to be taking a charge, so I'm going to let it charge overnight. Got it hooked up to my jump starter while it's charging, seems to work from past experience and confirming voltage increase with my meter.

To me....it sounds like an alternator issue....

May very well be. That would indeed suck. The headlights and the dash lighting was all dimmer than I expected. Rats.

Any quick pointers on what brands to not get? Im gonna check before and after starting it again with the meter and see if anything makes sense. I think autozone has test equipment to help determine.

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Indeed, alternator (or at least the internal voltage regulator) appears to be bad. Autozone confirmed my findings when I drove the manually-charged car out there to pick up an alternator just now.

Got a Duralast "premium remanufactured" 70amp #005738 14944 alternator for $120 + $34 core charge. There was a cheaper remanufactured alternator from a different brand I don't recall, same price but cheaper core charge.

The Duralast has a lifetime warranty, though-- as long as I have this vehicle and this receipt, I can get any Autozone to provide me with a replacement alternator free of charge if this or any replacements of it fail. Awesome.

Car just about cooled down enough for me to start removing belts...

Alternator replaced... testing & test driving... shiny alternator looks out of place in my otherwise dull engine compartment.

Woot! Altenator runs great, read 15.2v at the battery terminals with and without the headlights and a/c and stereo on. Regulation is a go! A/C blows ice cold now as well... progress!

And...undone. alternator is no longer charging my battery. Plugged in a 100w peak inverter to the lighter adapter to charge my jump starter and noticed the battery voltage is under 13v when the car is running. Ugh. Maybe ive got a bad / loose wire somewhere I gotta track down. Rats.

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Bum alternator.... starts out with 15v when cold but heats up quick. Then it can only keep 10v on the battery while the headlights and ac are on.

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