legacycentral bbs

I have a 92 subaru legacy 2.2 that I have had for 12 years. In that time I learned a lot about cars with her and with little to no supervision from my male friends have been able to figure out pretty much everything she's needed to be repaired on my own. Because I'm a girl, I usually get a run around even going to get tires. To me it's stressful to prove that you know anything so I've resorted to doing all the work on my own. I have been successful in all of it up until now..

She just hit 244K so I'm pretty sure I know the answer to my question(s). However I'm hoping there is something I haven't thought of.

It started about a week or so ago where it now consistently needs about 8-12oz of fluid to be added to the radiator daily. If I make more than a couple stops I'll have to top her off with another 8-12 oz of fluid. In each case my overflow is completely full and I can see where it had purged out so I know that the fluids are in fact cycling. The temperature stays consistent until (obviously) the fluid gets to low then it will get hotter than usual. I tend to be pretty conservative and won't push her to far before pulling over and letting her cool to figure out what the problem is. Usually it would pull from the overflow but it's not doing that and if it is, it's not very much as it is constantly either plump full or just 1-2oz from the top. I have no leaks in my radiator, hoses, or heater core that I can see. My water pump and thermostat are working (or it would be constantly overheating) or not cycling at all. Someone else had mentioned to me that it could possibly be the radiator cap but there is no evidence of that on or near the cap and I have not seen it coming out of there at all.

So here in lies my question(s). 1. I'm leaning towards a possible head gasket leak (no water/oil mixture or white smoke). Because I have yet to get this far into my car (the furthest I ever had to go was a water pump and timing belt) I am a little worried on how difficult this would be and IF it would be 'worth it'. I say this cause she does have 244K on her so that said I know to do it right, I'd want the heads resurfaced or at least checked. I'm worried I might actually be looking at rebuilding it once I get in there (pistons, rockers ect) upon inspection of the inside. 2. If not the head gasket, what else could it possibly be? I really can't tell if the coolant is being burned, leaking somewhere or anything at this point and can only see evidence of the cycle happening from the overflow, it's just not pulling from the overflow to keep levels. 3. if it is the head gasket, does anyone know would I have to pull the engine to do this or could I just take it apart from the top? As I stated I know to do this properly a lot more work should be done inside the engine once I got there, but this is my only car so I'd need this done quickly and do not have the time to do it that way. That being said IF I was to just put the head gaskets in, what would the potential be for a reoccurring issue later?

She's not pretty anymore, but I love this car and I'm just not ready to let her go. Any and all messages/suggestions/thoughts are welcome.

Sounds like my ej22 when the HG's went. Another possibility is the thermostat isn't working 100% (less likely). Personally, I'd grab a brand new Subaru (not aftermarket cause they typically don't work as well) thermostat and radiator cap. Go from there.

My engine lasted over 40k miles of my filling it up every time it cooled down. I used a turkey baster to transfer coolant from the overflow, lol. Engine never really died, but I ended up putting a far fresher junkyard engine in, and that solved that.

Doesn't hurt to try something simple first right!! I'll do that tonight or tomorrow and see if that's the culprit. Wouldn't hurt to do a coolant flush anyway, even though I know my fluids look good lol Yes the thermostat I have in there now IS aftermarket so that could be part of what's giving me issues. I know every once in a while it would start to get a little warmer than usual if just sitting in traffic but once you got going all would be working fine. So that could very well be part of the problem is that it's not working 100% of the time.

I'll report back once I've done this and hopefully it's just a simple fix.

Thank you for your response

I too would start with Subaru t-stat. I haven't found a single aftermarket one that worked properly.

IMHO, you most definitely have a HG leak. And if you are loosing as much fluid as you say you are it is at the point of reasonably bad. If you want to be certain you can get a block leak detector kit which allows you extract air from the cooling system via the rad cap and pass it through a fluid to detect exhaust gases and verify the HG leak.

The only other possible option is a bad radiator cap that is not holding any pressure. If you want you can replace the cap and see if that fixes the problem. Otherwise get the block leak detector kit. It is $50 at Napa and I have seen Autozone's that loan it out.

I would not recommend fixing the motor. I would buy a lower mileage 2.2 and swap. Replace timing components and reseal oil pan, oil separator plate and rear main. Used motor with <150k can probably be had for $500. Redoing heads with surfacing and valve job, which your motor will need at 244k will be $300 minimum.

Also, not to step on anyone's toes, buy flushing the system and replacing the thermostat is a waste of time and money with the symptoms you have. If the car is running at normal temperature I can guarantee the thermostat is opening.

Your motor is pushing fluid past the radiator cap because the pressure of the cooling system is exceeding the pressure limits of the cap. This only happens if the cap is faulty or if the system is pressurized, i.e., >15 -20 psi. There are two scenarios that will lead to an over pressurized system. Extreme overheating where the coolant is boiling (not your problem) or exhaust gases from the combustion chamber entering the cooling system which over pressure the system. The exhaust gases get in the cooling system due to HG leak or crack in block or in cylinder head.

Also, with the motor hot and running, open the overflow lid and look inside. I bet you will see bubbles. If you increase the RPM to 3000 I bet you will see a higher frequency of bubbles. Those bubbles are the exhaust gas escaping.

Car-part.com says that I-5 Auto parts in Chehalis has a 2.2 Auto with 126k on the clock for $375 (stock #21397)....done.

glennda5id wrote:Also, not to step on anyone's toes, buy flushing the system and replacing the thermostat is a waste of time and money with the symptoms you have. If the car is running at normal temperature I can guarantee the thermostat is opening.

Your motor is pushing fluid past the radiator cap because the pressure of the cooling system is exceeding the pressure limits of the cap. This only happens if the cap is faulty or if the system is pressurized, i.e., >15 -20 psi. There are two scenarios that will lead to an over pressurized system. Extreme overheating where the coolant is boiling (not your problem) or exhaust gases from the combustion chamber entering the cooling system which over pressure the system. The exhaust gases get in the cooling system due to HG leak or crack in block or in cylinder head.

Also, with the motor hot and running, open the overflow lid and look inside. I bet you will see bubbles. If you increase the RPM to 3000 I bet you will see a higher frequency of bubbles. Those bubbles are the exhaust gas escaping.

I agree with almost all of this.

I would start the motor cold with the radiator cap off, look for bubbles rising up in the coolant.

Previously I had a 4AG that had a bad HG, Cylinder 4 to the water jacket. When it would warm up it would push all of its coolant into the overflow tank. Tell tale bubbles in the coolant at the pressure cap. When I pulled the head it was obvious.

Doing a HG for the first time is a pretty deep dive. Think perseverance, not courage. Perseverance will get you through. Or buy another motor and swap it.

I too think it's the head gasket. You could try a subaru t-stat & new rad cap, but I don't think it'll be any different, especially if you had been using this t-stat for a while.

I would go for the used engine. It'll be less money and time in the long run. Keep the old engine, tear it apart and learn how the inards are. If you want, rebuild it, but with that kind of mileage, knowing what I've done when rebuiling my past engines.....there's always little additions and things to do you don't anticipate or figure, "well it's open, might as well do it now". So things snow ball pretty quickly.

here's my update so far:

I did not do the thermostat..it didn't make sense to me to do it just because if the thermostat was ever a problem it would be overheating which is not doing as long as the fluids are there she runs just fine. I did however go ahead and get another radiator cap. So far I have noticed that the amount of fluids I have to add are quite a bit less (2-4 oz.) but its still needing to be added regardless so that could have been part of my problem but that obviously is not the whole problem. I am going to let it run and look for those bubbles you all have told me about. I also have a buddy of mine is going to put a tester on it and see if we can figure it out with that.

I'm starting to lean more towards getting that new engine or at least a lower mileage used engine to put in there. The more I thought about it getting into the head gasket you're right I most likely would start thinking the same thing well I'm here I might as well...so I think enough is enough I think I'm going to start shopping around but I still want to know what the problem is just for my knowledge sake. Again I'll report back as I find out more.

Thanks again everyone for giving me your thoughts and responses they mean a lot. Definitely nice to be able to learn these things. I think I will definitely be keeping this engine and pulling it apart like you suggested cuz that just sounds like a good time especially if there's beer involved lol

Yeah, tearing an engine apart is fun, especially with beer I plan to pull my 5spd apart, but haven't had time. I wish I would have kept my 4EAT to take apart, but didn't. I'd love to take one of those apart to see all the innards.

Me too I wish I still had my old 5spd to take apart but first my garage needs to be big enough to fit that addition lol

Heres to learning about things by dissassembling them with beer to help!

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