legacycentral bbs

Hey all. So I'm having some trouble diagnosing the startup issues with my sister's Legacy.

93 Legacy L Sedan Auto. 265k miles. Owned since 100k, so for a very long time it was very meticulously maintained. Last few years, less so.

Anyway, here's the issue. It seemed to pop up out of nowhere but basically it randomly developed a sporadic problem with turning over. The majority of the time, it would crank and start right up. The other times, it would not turn over at all. Just a single "click" and other than that, nothing. It seemed to be slightly more frequent when cold, but it would still randomly have the issue when it was perfectly warm out as well. Sometimes holding the key to "start" for a few seconds, it would finally start turning over and start up.

Battery terminals were extremely dirty so I got that all cleaned up and it seemed to fix it for a day or two, then the problem returned. My multi meter stopped working so I haven't had a chance to test the battery, so instead I hooked up jumper cables to my truck (which I know has a good battery) without starting the truck to see if it would start up being connected to a good battery. Same single "click" with no turn over. Then I started the truck to give it the extra voltage, and sure enough the Legacy turned right over and started up.

This indicated to me that it was likely dirty connections and that the starter just isn't getting enough "juice" to turn it over. So once again, pulled the battery terminals and cleaned even more thoroughly, pulled the connections to the starter and got those terminals all cleaned up, and just for extra measure I cleaned the main body and engine ground connections. After all this, on the first start, there was a second or two delay and then it started right up. Did about a half a dozen more start ups over the last two days to ensure that it was working, and had zero issues.

Now this morning, when she needed the car for work, a new issue has arisen. The first two attempts, it delayed, then turned over, but would not start. Then it went back to not turning over at all, just the single "click." So, I drove her to work, came back home and attempted to start the car again (about an hour had passed) and it would delay for a second or two, then start turning over, but would not start.

I'm at a loss here. Obviously for the turning over issue I need to have the battery and starter tested, and possibly check/replace/hard wire the starter relay. Any other input on that would be greatly appreciated but I'm really just confused as to why it would randomly overnight develop an issue with not starting when it does turn over. Every time in the past, if it turned over, it would start right up. That includes LAST NIGHT!! But this morning, no go. I know that the normal culprits would be spark, fuel, vacuum, blah blah blah, but how the heck did it just randomly develop overnight with absolutely NOTHING changing??

Ugh. /rant

Thanks for any input.

I would start with the contacts in the starter solenoid. A good cleaning may help, but you may need to rebuild it. That's what it sounds like to me.

Thanks for that, I did consider that. I'm at the point where I would just go ahead and replace the starter if I was sure that would work. And that may very well take care of the intermittent no turn over issue, but that wouldn't really explain the newly developed no-start when it DOES turn over, would it?

Update:

Got the car started. Depressed the gas pedal to the floor and cranked it for about 5 seconds and it started up. Ran a little rough, and seemed to be running rich (white smoke and smelled like extra fuel, not oil or coolant). Drove it to the parts store and had them test the battery. Sure enough the diagnostic tool said that the battery was bad, and alternator & starter checked out ok. Not sure how much I trust the diagnostic tool testing the starter from the battery, but that's beside the point.

I guess that would explain the intermittent no turn over, and could possibly explain the no-start this morning (maybe even when it was turning over, it wasn't getting strong enough spark to ignite the fuel?). Either way I guess I'll replace the battery and re assess.

Also just noticed that the fans are constantly running (it's about 32 degrees out) so I'll have to look into that, but that's a whole different can of worms.

tsbpenguin wrote: I guess that would explain the intermittent no turn over, and could possibly explain the no-start this morning (maybe even when it was turning over, it wasn't getting strong enough spark to ignite the fuel?). Either way I guess I'll replace the battery and re assess.

Also just noticed that the fans are constantly running (it's about 32 degrees out) so I'll have to look into that, but that's a whole different can of worms.

Howre you pulling codes with a diagnostic tool, 93 is obd1?
A battery can test low if youve been cranking it alot without it starting, it can drain a battery, its meant to crank and then charge while driving not crank over and over
Fans running constantly can point to a coolant temp sensor, located on the coolant crossover pipe, they break and cause the fans to constsntly run, i think ive heard of people having lots of issues from them with poor running and idling
Is the check engine light on?
I would look at the coolant temp sensor and see if its broken

Not a CEL diagnostic tool, O'Reilly has a battery tester diagnostic tool that tests the battery, alternator, and apparently starter.
The battery was tested immediately after having driven it 10 minutes to O'Reilly's, so it definitely was not low due to cranking. I'm quite clear on how a vehicle's starting/charging system works.
At this point I'm not going to worry about the fan issue until I've got the starting issue solved. Then I'll check the CTS, pressure switch, relays, etc.
No CELs

If you had the heater on defrost I think that causes the fan to run.

tsbpenguin wrote: The battery was tested immediately after having driven it 10 minutes to O'Reilly's, so it definitely was not low due to cranking. I'm quite clear on how a vehicle's starting/charging system works.

You should be clear then that an alternator isnt a magic tool that charges instantaneously then, check that the starter relay works, check that the starter switch wire sends 12v when the key is turned

tsbpenguin wrote: At this point I'm not going to worry about the fan issue until I've got the starting issue solved. Then I'll check the CTS, pressure switch, relays, etc.
No CELs

Honestly i still believe the issue is with the starter, take it out, it takes ten minutes, and brjng it to autozone to test it
Start checking vacuum lines, fuel, spark whatever, its gonna be very difficult for you to find someone who can properly diagnose an issue like this over the internet with minimal details, accept the suggestions and investigate, otherwise take it to a shop..some people dont have diagnostic troubleshooting skills, it takes logical, patient minded people. Maybe thats you maybe not but you seem to have a know it all attitude so im sure youll figure it out..maybe

Yeah the fans staying on could be simply because you have the HVAC on defrost.

Sounds like a sltarter relay issue using to many amps to the starter causing it not to have enough juice to turn the starter, id check that first then check the battery, good luck