legacycentral bbs

Ok, you've heard me babble on before about this, but now i think it
might just happen.

I've found a place in Northern California that will sell "swap kits",
which include every necessary mechanical component for a swap from an
automatic to a manual transmission in a Subaru.

The kit consists of these parts:

Transmission (Legacy Turbo)
Drive shafts
Rear Differential (LSD!!!)
Shifter assembly
Pedals
Hydraulics for clutch
Clutch
Flywheel
Crossmember
(misc other parts)

Now i've been stirring by brain for literally weeks now trying to
figure out which would be better for me in the long run, which would
be easier, if i'd miss the ease of an automatic or if i'd be
instantly struck by the improvements with the manual. I've come to a
conclusion: It depends.

For $1500 plus $100-150 in shipping, this can be mine. Another
couple hundred will get it installed by my favorite mechanic
(Subaru/Saab nut).

So, here's what i get better in the swap:
Gas mileage.
Torque distribution.
Limited Slip.
The rest of that power the slushbox just can't transfer.
Flocks of women who dig 5MT turbo wagons (uh...)
A weight savings of 50-100lbs (think of all that fluid)
Better car control on course.

What i lose:
Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
One hand in the pocket, one on the wheel on the cooooooold days.
Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
The relative simplicity of the swapover.

For roughly the same price as rebuilding or replacing my 4EAT, i get
a number of really nice benefits.

Now i think i have to decide between 3.9 and 4.1 gears. Acceleration
vs mileage and top speed. I'm leaning towards the prior.

Input please!


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In a message dated 1/16/02 9:45:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, legacycentral@yahoo.com writes:




I've found a place in Northern California that will sell "swap kits",



Do they have a web page? e-mail contact..? Phone#.. 1500 not all that bad..

David Carter



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zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Dave,

I have just been going through this exact same toss up with mine.

I do have a little more info for you though, which may or may not sway you to one side.

The parts list is pretty comprehensive from what I can see, the one thing I see missing is the TCU or ECU out of the turbo 5spd. Now this may be different for the turbo legacy, and it has a completely different TCU then what the N/A legacy has. A new ECU was in my list of stuff for my swap. Other thing i was told is that the wiring harness for an automatic car vs. a manual car is different.

The other thing, it is quite a bit of work to do one of these swaps, or so I have been told. I contacted Robert at Forced Air, and talked with him about my plans. I was goin to do the swap with another FWD Legacy, and just take all the parts I needed from a similar car I could buy at an auction.

However the above really was not what persuaded me to rethink things. I told Robert I was planning on purchasing one of his turbo kits in the future. He really urged me to stay with the auto for a couple reasons. It can handle the torque and power alot better then the manual gear box can. The 4EAT tranny is essentially a truck transmission, so it is very beefy. The FWD tranny that I have in mine is essentially the same they used on the FWD SVX's. Also from what I have gathered is that the auto will keeps the turbo spooled up better then a manual can.

I'm sure the above things can be debated a bit. But I respect his input and feedback on the project.

The thing he said that kills these trannys is low line pressure during shifts. There is a tranny resistor that if you unplug it will default the tranny into using full line pressure during shifts, causing for firmer shifts, less heat generation, and about twice the life of the transmission. The only negative thing I have run across is that if you physically move the gear selector from Drive to 3rd, it will not down shift the tranny. works fine for any other D to 2, 2-1, etc, just not D to 3. I am tryin to solve that problem, if I can, I will leave it unplugged. I don't know if it just my tranny, and it's age or if that is just what it does. When I initially unplugged it, it would shift from D to 3. I think what happen is that the computer had a long time average of data from the sensors where everything was working fine, and then as I drove it, and the unplugged resistor was averaged in, it went to not shiftin into 3.

Other thing a friend of my mom's told me. He own's, has rebuilt these trannys a bit, is that there is a return line or something that has a check valve or something with a little spring. He said over time this little spring wears out, and breaks, causing the transmission to again further loose line pressure during shifting, causing even more heat and premature failure.

I asked Robert about rebuildin the tranny, he said unless you get someone that really knows what they are doing, a common error is that they don't set the last between the planetary gears and the tranny correctly, and in a month or they start grinding and turn into a nice metal flakey mess.

I would LOVE to put the 5spd in, I hate not having the control over the transmission and what not, and I just enjoy driving the 5spd alot better, however I am willing to listen to reason, and Robert brought up alot of good points.

So that's my input.....not sure if it helped sway you in any direction.....

Josh


-----Original Message-----
From: legacycentral [mailto:legacycentral@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wed 1/16/2002 8:39 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap



Ok, you've heard me babble on before about this, but now i think it
might just happen.

I've found a place in Northern California that will sell "swap kits",
which include every necessary mechanical component for a swap from an
automatic to a manual transmission in a Subaru.

The kit consists of these parts:

Transmission (Legacy Turbo)
Drive shafts
Rear Differential (LSD!!!)
Shifter assembly
Pedals
Hydraulics for clutch
Clutch
Flywheel
Crossmember
(misc other parts)

Now i've been stirring by brain for literally weeks now trying to
figure out which would be better for me in the long run, which would
be easier, if i'd miss the ease of an automatic or if i'd be
instantly struck by the improvements with the manual. I've come to a
conclusion: It depends.

For $1500 plus $100-150 in shipping, this can be mine. Another
couple hundred will get it installed by my favorite mechanic
(Subaru/Saab nut).

So, here's what i get better in the swap:
Gas mileage.
Torque distribution.
Limited Slip.
The rest of that power the slushbox just can't transfer.
Flocks of women who dig 5MT turbo wagons (uh...)
A weight savings of 50-100lbs (think of all that fluid)
Better car control on course.

What i lose:
Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
One hand in the pocket, one on the wheel on the cooooooold days.
Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
The relative simplicity of the swapover.

For roughly the same price as rebuilding or replacing my 4EAT, i get
a number of really nice benefits.

Now i think i have to decide between 3.9 and 4.1 gears. Acceleration
vs mileage and top speed. I'm leaning towards the prior.

Input please!


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Forgot to mention here is a thread that has pics of the tranny resistor and what some people have tried doing http://pub1.ezboard.com/fultimatesubaru ... 3418.topic

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Colombo
Sent: Wed 1/16/2002 113 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap


Dave,

I have just been going through this exact same toss up with mine.

I do have a little more info for you though, which may or may not sway you to one side.

The parts list is pretty comprehensive from what I can see, the one thing I see missing is the TCU or ECU out of the turbo 5spd. Now this may be different for the turbo legacy, and it has a completely different TCU then what the N/A legacy has. A new ECU was in my list of stuff for my swap. Other thing i was told is that the wiring harness for an automatic car vs. a manual car is different.

The other thing, it is quite a bit of work to do one of these swaps, or so I have been told. I contacted Robert at Forced Air, and talked with him about my plans. I was goin to do the swap with another FWD Legacy, and just take all the parts I needed from a similar car I could buy at an auction.

However the above really was not what persuaded me to rethink things. I told Robert I was planning on purchasing one of his turbo kits in the future. He really urged me to stay with the auto for a couple reasons. It can handle the torque and power alot better then the manual gear box can. The 4EAT tranny is essentially a truck transmission, so it is very beefy. The FWD tranny that I have in mine is essentially the same they used on the FWD SVX's. Also from what I have gathered is that the auto will keeps the turbo spooled up better then a manual can.

I'm sure the above things can be debated a bit. But I respect his input and feedback on the project.

The thing he said that kills these trannys is low line pressure during shifts. There is a tranny resistor that if you unplug it will default the tranny into using full line pressure during shifts, causing for firmer shifts, less heat generation, and about twice the life of the transmission. The only negative thing I have run across is that if you physically move the gear selector from Drive to 3rd, it will not down shift the tranny. works fine for any other D to 2, 2-1, etc, just not D to 3. I am tryin to solve that problem, if I can, I will leave it unplugged. I don't know if it just my tranny, and it's age or if that is just what it does. When I initially unplugged it, it would shift from D to 3. I think what happen is that the computer had a long time average of data from the sensors where everything was working fine, and then as I drove it, and the unplugged resistor was averaged in, it went to not shiftin into 3.

Other thing a friend of my mom's told me. He own's, has rebuilt these trannys a bit, is that there is a return line or something that has a check valve or something with a little spring. He said over time this little spring wears out, and breaks, causing the transmission to again further loose line pressure during shifting, causing even more heat and premature failure.

I asked Robert about rebuildin the tranny, he said unless you get someone that really knows what they are doing, a common error is that they don't set the last between the planetary gears and the tranny correctly, and in a month or they start grinding and turn into a nice metal flakey mess.

I would LOVE to put the 5spd in, I hate not having the control over the transmission and what not, and I just enjoy driving the 5spd alot better, however I am willing to listen to reason, and Robert brought up alot of good points.

So that's my input.....not sure if it helped sway you in any direction.....

Josh


-----Original Message-----
From: legacycentral [mailto:legacycentral@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wed 1/16/2002 8:39 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap



Ok, you've heard me babble on before about this, but now i think it
might just happen.

I've found a place in Northern California that will sell "swap kits",
which include every necessary mechanical component for a swap from an
automatic to a manual transmission in a Subaru.

The kit consists of these parts:

Transmission (Legacy Turbo)
Drive shafts
Rear Differential (LSD!!!)
Shifter assembly
Pedals
Hydraulics for clutch
Clutch
Flywheel
Crossmember
(misc other parts)

Now i've been stirring by brain for literally weeks now trying to
figure out which would be better for me in the long run, which would
be easier, if i'd miss the ease of an automatic or if i'd be
instantly struck by the improvements with the manual. I've come to a
conclusion: It depends.

For $1500 plus $100-150 in shipping, this can be mine. Another
couple hundred will get it installed by my favorite mechanic
(Subaru/Saab nut).

So, here's what i get better in the swap:
Gas mileage.
Torque distribution.
Limited Slip.
The rest of that power the slushbox just can't transfer.
Flocks of women who dig 5MT turbo wagons (uh...)
A weight savings of 50-100lbs (think of all that fluid)
Better car control on course.

What i lose:
Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
One hand in the pocket, one on the wheel on the cooooooold days.
Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
The relative simplicity of the swapover.

For roughly the same price as rebuilding or replacing my 4EAT, i get
a number of really nice benefits.

Now i think i have to decide between 3.9 and 4.1 gears. Acceleration
vs mileage and top speed. I'm leaning towards the prior.

Input please!


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Once i've secured mine, i'll let the cat out of the bag. I don't
wanna get swooped!

Dave

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., bussaca2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/16/02 9:45:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> legacycentral@y... writes:
>
>
> > I've found a place in Northern California that will sell "swap
kits",
>
> Do they have a web page? e-mail contact..? Phone#.. 1500 not all
that bad..
>
> David Carter


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I'll try to hit these points one at a time.

I know a guy in SF that has done this exact swap, and as far as i
know, he kept the AT ECU. No problems so far, but i will ask him
about it once he's online again. With the TCU doing all AT duties, i
can't think of a good reason why the ECU would be much different
between US models of the same car.

It is a bit of work, but i have a great mechanic with a lot of time
ripping transmission out of Subarus, a 98RS more specifically, as
it's won STS two years running and goes through transmissions about
that often too. He thinks 10-12 hours, 2-3 day turnaround.

I know the 4EAT is strong, but so is the Legacy Turbo transmission.
It came to us from the Legacy RS in the rest of the world and is
significantly beefier than any Subaru transmission up to the WRX,
which incidetally is startlingly similar (read: newer revision).

I do know of the resistor mod, and i've used it for several months,
but it does little to help me with the transmission i currently
have. When the boost kicks in, i don't care how much line pressure i
have, the tranny slips badly. On a rebuild, one done right, i'm sure
it'd make all the difference in the world, but who can do it right?

I'm still looking down towards the swap, for my modest performance
needs, it looks to be the best deal going.

Dave

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I have just been going through this exact same toss up with mine.
>
> I do have a little more info for you though, which may or may not
sway you to one side.
>
> The parts list is pretty comprehensive from what I can see, the one
thing I see missing is the TCU or ECU out of the turbo 5spd. Now
this may be different for the turbo legacy, and it has a completely
different TCU then what the N/A legacy has. A new ECU was in my list
of stuff for my swap. Other thing i was told is that the wiring
harness for an automatic car vs. a manual car is different.
>
> The other thing, it is quite a bit of work to do one of these
swaps, or so I have been told. I contacted Robert at Forced Air, and
talked with him about my plans. I was goin to do the swap with
another FWD Legacy, and just take all the parts I needed from a
similar car I could buy at an auction.
>
> However the above really was not what persuaded me to rethink
things. I told Robert I was planning on purchasing one of his turbo
kits in the future. He really urged me to stay with the auto for a
couple reasons. It can handle the torque and power alot better then
the manual gear box can. The 4EAT tranny is essentially a truck
transmission, so it is very beefy. The FWD tranny that I have in
mine is essentially the same they used on the FWD SVX's. Also from
what I have gathered is that the auto will keeps the turbo spooled up
better then a manual can.
>
> I'm sure the above things can be debated a bit. But I respect his
input and feedback on the project.
>
> The thing he said that kills these trannys is low line pressure
during shifts. There is a tranny resistor that if you unplug it will
default the tranny into using full line pressure during shifts,
causing for firmer shifts, less heat generation, and about twice the
life of the transmission. The only negative thing I have run across
is that if you physically move the gear selector from Drive to 3rd,
it will not down shift the tranny. works fine for any other D to 2,
2-1, etc, just not D to 3. I am tryin to solve that problem, if I
can, I will leave it unplugged. I don't know if it just my tranny,
and it's age or if that is just what it does. When I initially
unplugged it, it would shift from D to 3. I think what happen is
that the computer had a long time average of data from the sensors
where everything was working fine, and then as I drove it, and the
unplugged resistor was averaged in, it went to not shiftin into 3.
>
> Other thing a friend of my mom's told me. He own's, has rebuilt
these trannys a bit, is that there is a return line or something that
has a check valve or something with a little spring. He said over
time this little spring wears out, and breaks, causing the
transmission to again further loose line pressure during shifting,
causing even more heat and premature failure.
>
> I asked Robert about rebuildin the tranny, he said unless you get
someone that really knows what they are doing, a common error is that
they don't set the last between the planetary gears and the tranny
correctly, and in a month or they start grinding and turn into a nice
metal flakey mess.
>
> I would LOVE to put the 5spd in, I hate not having the control over
the transmission and what not, and I just enjoy driving the 5spd alot
better, however I am willing to listen to reason, and Robert brought
up alot of good points.
>
> So that's my input.....not sure if it helped sway you in any
direction.....
>
> Josh


To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

I have done the electronics on the swap and it isn't to bad the ECU
should work the one I did worked. You might have to swap the cruise
control unit ($10.00 item) and you will have some wiring to do I have
the turbo Legacy wiring diagram if you need it. Some of the early
automatics used a different MAF and IAC.
AL(CO)




--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "legacycentral" <legacycentral@y...>
wrote:
> I'll try to hit these points one at a time.
>
> I know a guy in SF that has done this exact swap, and as far as i
> know, he kept the AT ECU. No problems so far, but i will ask him
> about it once he's online again. With the TCU doing all AT duties,
i
> can't think of a good reason why the ECU would be much different
> between US models of the same car.
>
> It is a bit of work, but i have a great mechanic with a lot of time
> ripping transmission out of Subarus, a 98RS more specifically, as
> it's won STS two years running and goes through transmissions about
> that often too. He thinks 10-12 hours, 2-3 day turnaround.
>
> I know the 4EAT is strong, but so is the Legacy Turbo transmission.
> It came to us from the Legacy RS in the rest of the world and is
> significantly beefier than any Subaru transmission up to the WRX,
> which incidetally is startlingly similar (read: newer revision).
>
> I do know of the resistor mod, and i've used it for several months,
> but it does little to help me with the transmission i currently
> have. When the boost kicks in, i don't care how much line pressure
i
> have, the tranny slips badly. On a rebuild, one done right, i'm
sure
> it'd make all the difference in the world, but who can do it right?
>
> I'm still looking down towards the swap, for my modest performance
> needs, it looks to be the best deal going.
>
> Dave
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > I have just been going through this exact same toss up with mine.
> >
> > I do have a little more info for you though, which may or may not
> sway you to one side.
> >
> > The parts list is pretty comprehensive from what I can see, the
one
> thing I see missing is the TCU or ECU out of the turbo 5spd. Now
> this may be different for the turbo legacy, and it has a completely
> different TCU then what the N/A legacy has. A new ECU was in my
list
> of stuff for my swap. Other thing i was told is that the wiring
> harness for an automatic car vs. a manual car is different.
> >
> > The other thing, it is quite a bit of work to do one of these
> swaps, or so I have been told. I contacted Robert at Forced Air,
and
> talked with him about my plans. I was goin to do the swap with
> another FWD Legacy, and just take all the parts I needed from a
> similar car I could buy at an auction.
> >
> > However the above really was not what persuaded me to rethink
> things. I told Robert I was planning on purchasing one of his turbo
> kits in the future. He really urged me to stay with the auto for a
> couple reasons. It can handle the torque and power alot better then
> the manual gear box can. The 4EAT tranny is essentially a truck
> transmission, so it is very beefy. The FWD tranny that I have in
> mine is essentially the same they used on the FWD SVX's. Also from
> what I have gathered is that the auto will keeps the turbo spooled
up
> better then a manual can.
> >
> > I'm sure the above things can be debated a bit. But I respect his
> input and feedback on the project.
> >
> > The thing he said that kills these trannys is low line pressure
> during shifts. There is a tranny resistor that if you unplug it
will
> default the tranny into using full line pressure during shifts,
> causing for firmer shifts, less heat generation, and about twice the
> life of the transmission. The only negative thing I have run across
> is that if you physically move the gear selector from Drive to 3rd,
> it will not down shift the tranny. works fine for any other D to 2,
> 2-1, etc, just not D to 3. I am tryin to solve that problem, if I
> can, I will leave it unplugged. I don't know if it just my tranny,
> and it's age or if that is just what it does. When I initially
> unplugged it, it would shift from D to 3. I think what happen is
> that the computer had a long time average of data from the sensors
> where everything was working fine, and then as I drove it, and the
> unplugged resistor was averaged in, it went to not shiftin into 3.
> >
> > Other thing a friend of my mom's told me. He own's, has rebuilt
> these trannys a bit, is that there is a return line or something
that
> has a check valve or something with a little spring. He said over
> time this little spring wears out, and breaks, causing the
> transmission to again further loose line pressure during shifting,
> causing even more heat and premature failure.
> >
> > I asked Robert about rebuildin the tranny, he said unless you get
> someone that really knows what they are doing, a common error is
that
> they don't set the last between the planetary gears and the tranny
> correctly, and in a month or they start grinding and turn into a
nice
> metal flakey mess.
> >
> > I would LOVE to put the 5spd in, I hate not having the control
over
> the transmission and what not, and I just enjoy driving the 5spd
alot
> better, however I am willing to listen to reason, and Robert brought
> up alot of good points.
> >
> > So that's my input.....not sure if it helped sway you in any
> direction.....
> >
> > Josh


------------------------ ---------------------~-->
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Let me know how things play out. I would love to swap over to a 5spd. I guess if I could get a turbo legacy tranny, and all the goodies for the rear end to convert my car to AWD, I would put quite a bit more consideration into it. The AWD conversion AND auto to 5spd swap would be something I would definitely want to help tackle, but not neccessarily by myself.

I do know what you are talking about, with the tranny slipping. The car just does NOT have the get up and go which it used to have....and I'm sorta like you.....I really don't want to rebuild the tranny. When I get down to Houston, I need to do a little cost comparision, plus take in the consideration of needing a tranny rebuild down the line. But I would appreciate any links or info from this company you're dealing with for getting the parts for the tranny swap. Also, do you think you're mechanic buddy would be interested in doin a swap for me? Not exactly sure when it would be, how much he would charge, or if I could help, and all that stuff. But if I do go through with it, I would prefer having someone that knows what their doing, do it. I really don't mind driving to somewhere else.

Thanks

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: legacycentral [mailto:legacycentral@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wed 1/16/2002 11:48 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap



I'll try to hit these points one at a time.

I know a guy in SF that has done this exact swap, and as far as i
know, he kept the AT ECU. No problems so far, but i will ask him
about it once he's online again. With the TCU doing all AT duties, i
can't think of a good reason why the ECU would be much different
between US models of the same car.

It is a bit of work, but i have a great mechanic with a lot of time
ripping transmission out of Subarus, a 98RS more specifically, as
it's won STS two years running and goes through transmissions about
that often too. He thinks 10-12 hours, 2-3 day turnaround.

I know the 4EAT is strong, but so is the Legacy Turbo transmission.
It came to us from the Legacy RS in the rest of the world and is
significantly beefier than any Subaru transmission up to the WRX,
which incidetally is startlingly similar (read: newer revision).

I do know of the resistor mod, and i've used it for several months,
but it does little to help me with the transmission i currently
have. When the boost kicks in, i don't care how much line pressure i
have, the tranny slips badly. On a rebuild, one done right, i'm sure
it'd make all the difference in the world, but who can do it right?

I'm still looking down towards the swap, for my modest performance
needs, it looks to be the best deal going.

Dave

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I have just been going through this exact same toss up with mine.
>
> I do have a little more info for you though, which may or may not
sway you to one side.
>
> The parts list is pretty comprehensive from what I can see, the one
thing I see missing is the TCU or ECU out of the turbo 5spd. Now
this may be different for the turbo legacy, and it has a completely
different TCU then what the N/A legacy has. A new ECU was in my list
of stuff for my swap. Other thing i was told is that the wiring
harness for an automatic car vs. a manual car is different.
>
> The other thing, it is quite a bit of work to do one of these
swaps, or so I have been told. I contacted Robert at Forced Air, and
talked with him about my plans. I was goin to do the swap with
another FWD Legacy, and just take all the parts I needed from a
similar car I could buy at an auction.
>
> However the above really was not what persuaded me to rethink
things. I told Robert I was planning on purchasing one of his turbo
kits in the future. He really urged me to stay with the auto for a
couple reasons. It can handle the torque and power alot better then
the manual gear box can. The 4EAT tranny is essentially a truck
transmission, so it is very beefy. The FWD tranny that I have in
mine is essentially the same they used on the FWD SVX's. Also from
what I have gathered is that the auto will keeps the turbo spooled up
better then a manual can.
>
> I'm sure the above things can be debated a bit. But I respect his
input and feedback on the project.
>
> The thing he said that kills these trannys is low line pressure
during shifts. There is a tranny resistor that if you unplug it will
default the tranny into using full line pressure during shifts,
causing for firmer shifts, less heat generation, and about twice the
life of the transmission. The only negative thing I have run across
is that if you physically move the gear selector from Drive to 3rd,
it will not down shift the tranny. works fine for any other D to 2,
2-1, etc, just not D to 3. I am tryin to solve that problem, if I
can, I will leave it unplugged. I don't know if it just my tranny,
and it's age or if that is just what it does. When I initially
unplugged it, it would shift from D to 3. I think what happen is
that the computer had a long time average of data from the sensors
where everything was working fine, and then as I drove it, and the
unplugged resistor was averaged in, it went to not shiftin into 3.
>
> Other thing a friend of my mom's told me. He own's, has rebuilt
these trannys a bit, is that there is a return line or something that
has a check valve or something with a little spring. He said over
time this little spring wears out, and breaks, causing the
transmission to again further loose line pressure during shifting,
causing even more heat and premature failure.
>
> I asked Robert about rebuildin the tranny, he said unless you get
someone that really knows what they are doing, a common error is that
they don't set the last between the planetary gears and the tranny
correctly, and in a month or they start grinding and turn into a nice
metal flakey mess.
>
> I would LOVE to put the 5spd in, I hate not having the control over
the transmission and what not, and I just enjoy driving the 5spd alot
better, however I am willing to listen to reason, and Robert brought
up alot of good points.
>
> So that's my input.....not sure if it helped sway you in any
direction.....
>
> Josh


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Al: Thanks, i know there's a few things like the reverse lights and
whatnot, but between you and Alex, i'm sure we can get that done.

Josh: This project will probably end up on the bad side of $2k, but
in your situation you will be getting a double benefit, 5MT and AWD.
The problem is that you'd need extra bits, hubs and whatnot for the
rear axle and misc other parts. The good thing is that these parts
are very interchangeable and the stock of 1G Legacy AWDs in Utah is
deep.

I'll keep you all updated on what i do, and if i do it. I just have
to make the decision now.


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Thanks Dave,

You're decision/success may hinge on my decision.....not to make it sound like you're the guinia pig

Josh

-----Original Message-----
From: legacycentral [mailto:legacycentral@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wed 1/16/2002 12:58 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap



Al: Thanks, i know there's a few things like the reverse lights and
whatnot, but between you and Alex, i'm sure we can get that done.

Josh: This project will probably end up on the bad side of $2k, but
in your situation you will be getting a double benefit, 5MT and AWD.
The problem is that you'd need extra bits, hubs and whatnot for the
rear axle and misc other parts. The good thing is that these parts
are very interchangeable and the stock of 1G Legacy AWDs in Utah is
deep.

I'll keep you all updated on what i do, and if i do it. I just have
to make the decision now.


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Well, i'm following in the footsteps of another, i suppose. He's
already got his engine rebuilt, suspension going in and swapover
complete. He's just dealing with the quirky things now, like
radiator hoses popping off and power steering fluid leaking all over
the place.

He is still using the stock ECU, and apparently this is OK.

I have the finances, it's just that i must force myself to sit on it
for at least a day or two, to make sure i don't do something stupid.

I know it works, it's just gonna take a little time. I hope to have
it together for mid-Febuary or March when Alex comes through on is
tour. Two 5MT Touring Wagons together, that would be cool...

Dave

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> Thanks Dave,
>
> You're decision/success may hinge on my decision.....not to make it
sound like you're the guinia pig
>
> Josh


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I know I am being a facetious today but have you guys considered
buying a new car with AWD and a 5 speed. It seems like a lot of
effort, time and money to do the swap. Surely the swapping of other
mods that you may have on your current ride to a new car would be a
heck of alot easier and cheaper!

Maybe this all sounds easier for me being in New Zealand where the
other models are readily available??

Just a thought though.

Stu (proud owner of a 5 speed GT Turbo Wagon)


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There's something about the challenge of doing this, and I like my legacy, I know what it has been through since day one, there was only one other owner besides me. Plus I could do the swap for probably less then what it would cost me for a comparable legacy in the same condition.

Josh

************************************
Josh Colombo
Josh@surrealmirage.com <mailto:Josh@surrealmirage.com> **NEW**

"Life, an ever-changing melody
of beats and rhythm" - ME
************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: stu_j_ure [mailto:stu@fluidmedia.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:22 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap


I know I am being a facetious today but have you guys considered
buying a new car with AWD and a 5 speed. It seems like a lot of
effort, time and money to do the swap. Surely the swapping of other
mods that you may have on your current ride to a new car would be a
heck of alot easier and cheaper!

Maybe this all sounds easier for me being in New Zealand where the
other models are readily available??

Just a thought though.

Stu (proud owner of a 5 speed GT Turbo Wagon)



To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com









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There are no 5MT turbo Legacy wagons in the US, save for those that
have been converted and the "new" WRX.

5MT sedans are expensive, $4000-8000.

I've put a LOT into my car, starting over wouldn't be fun, and i
really would have a hard time selling this car.

So, i spend my money on it.

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "stu_j_ure" <stu@f...> wrote:
> I know I am being a facetious today but have you guys considered
> buying a new car with AWD and a 5 speed. It seems like a lot of
> effort, time and money to do the swap. Surely the swapping of other
> mods that you may have on your current ride to a new car would be a
> heck of alot easier and cheaper!
>
> Maybe this all sounds easier for me being in New Zealand where the
> other models are readily available??
>
> Just a thought though.
>
> Stu (proud owner of a 5 speed GT Turbo Wagon)


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Fair enough.

Well it sounds like there are lots of 'good' challenges for you guys
in the US with modifying your cars. Good on ya! and good luck!

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "legacycentral" <legacycentral@y...>
wrote:
> There are no 5MT turbo Legacy wagons in the US, save for those that
> have been converted and the "new" WRX.
>
> 5MT sedans are expensive, $4000-8000.
>
> I've put a LOT into my car, starting over wouldn't be fun, and i
> really would have a hard time selling this car.
>
> So, i spend my money on it.
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "stu_j_ure" <stu@f...> wrote:
> > I know I am being a facetious today but have you guys considered
> > buying a new car with AWD and a 5 speed. It seems like a lot of
> > effort, time and money to do the swap. Surely the swapping of
other
> > mods that you may have on your current ride to a new car would be
a
> > heck of alot easier and cheaper!
> >
> > Maybe this all sounds easier for me being in New Zealand where
the
> > other models are readily available??
> >
> > Just a thought though.
> >
> > Stu (proud owner of a 5 speed GT Turbo Wagon)


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Guys, alot of great discussion on the 4eat to 5speed swap. This is why I
belong to this group! Personally I am going to rebuild my 4eat. I plan to do
all of the work myself with the aid of my factory service manual. I have
never done a Subaru tranny, but I have done a GM turbo 350 and a couple of
manual trannies before so I am going to give it a whirl. A 5-speed would be
nice, but I live in a large urban area. I like having one hand free to drink
my coffee,shoot the bird,or reload. Plus it will be great practice for the
SVX I plan to buy this summer.I will keep my sport sedan. I dont think I
could bear to sell it.I have got alot of plans for my turbo anyways.With
another car I will be free to tinker. Good luck in whatever you decide.
BillC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Colombo" <josh@surrealmirage.com>
To: <BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 123 PM
Subject: RE: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap


> Dave,
>
> I have just been going through this exact same toss up with mine.
>
> I do have a little more info for you though, which may or may not sway you
to one side.
>
> The parts list is pretty comprehensive from what I can see, the one thing
I see missing is the TCU or ECU out of the turbo 5spd. Now this may be
different for the turbo legacy, and it has a completely different TCU then
what the N/A legacy has. A new ECU was in my list of stuff for my swap.
Other thing i was told is that the wiring harness for an automatic car vs. a
manual car is different.
>
> The other thing, it is quite a bit of work to do one of these swaps, or so
I have been told. I contacted Robert at Forced Air, and talked with him
about my plans. I was goin to do the swap with another FWD Legacy, and just
take all the parts I needed from a similar car I could buy at an auction.
>
> However the above really was not what persuaded me to rethink things. I
told Robert I was planning on purchasing one of his turbo kits in the
future. He really urged me to stay with the auto for a couple reasons. It
can handle the torque and power alot better then the manual gear box can.
The 4EAT tranny is essentially a truck transmission, so it is very beefy.
The FWD tranny that I have in mine is essentially the same they used on the
FWD SVX's. Also from what I have gathered is that the auto will keeps the
turbo spooled up better then a manual can.
>
> I'm sure the above things can be debated a bit. But I respect his input
and feedback on the project.
>
> The thing he said that kills these trannys is low line pressure during
shifts. There is a tranny resistor that if you unplug it will default the
tranny into using full line pressure during shifts, causing for firmer
shifts, less heat generation, and about twice the life of the transmission.
The only negative thing I have run across is that if you physically move the
gear selector from Drive to 3rd, it will not down shift the tranny. works
fine for any other D to 2, 2-1, etc, just not D to 3. I am tryin to solve
that problem, if I can, I will leave it unplugged. I don't know if it just
my tranny, and it's age or if that is just what it does. When I initially
unplugged it, it would shift from D to 3. I think what happen is that the
computer had a long time average of data from the sensors where everything
was working fine, and then as I drove it, and the unplugged resistor was
averaged in, it went to not shiftin into 3.
>
> Other thing a friend of my mom's told me. He own's, has rebuilt these
trannys a bit, is that there is a return line or something that has a check
valve or something with a little spring. He said over time this little
spring wears out, and breaks, causing the transmission to again further
loose line pressure during shifting, causing even more heat and premature
failure.
>
> I asked Robert about rebuildin the tranny, he said unless you get someone
that really knows what they are doing, a common error is that they don't set
the last between the planetary gears and the tranny correctly, and in a
month or they start grinding and turn into a nice metal flakey mess.
>
> I would LOVE to put the 5spd in, I hate not having the control over the
transmission and what not, and I just enjoy driving the 5spd alot better,
however I am willing to listen to reason, and Robert brought up alot of good
points.
>
> So that's my input.....not sure if it helped sway you in any
direction.....
>
> Josh
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: legacycentral [mailto:legacycentral@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wed 1/16/2002 8:39 AM
> To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
> Cc:
> Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap
>
>
>
> Ok, you've heard me babble on before about this, but now i think it
> might just happen.
>
> I've found a place in Northern California that will sell "swap kits",
> which include every necessary mechanical component for a swap from an
> automatic to a manual transmission in a Subaru.
>
> The kit consists of these parts:
>
> Transmission (Legacy Turbo)
> Drive shafts
> Rear Differential (LSD!!!)
> Shifter assembly
> Pedals
> Hydraulics for clutch
> Clutch
> Flywheel
> Crossmember
> (misc other parts)
>
> Now i've been stirring by brain for literally weeks now trying to
> figure out which would be better for me in the long run, which would
> be easier, if i'd miss the ease of an automatic or if i'd be
> instantly struck by the improvements with the manual. I've come to a
> conclusion: It depends.
>
> For $1500 plus $100-150 in shipping, this can be mine. Another
> couple hundred will get it installed by my favorite mechanic
> (Subaru/Saab nut).
>
> So, here's what i get better in the swap:
> Gas mileage.
> Torque distribution.
> Limited Slip.
> The rest of that power the slushbox just can't transfer.
> Flocks of women who dig 5MT turbo wagons (uh...)
> A weight savings of 50-100lbs (think of all that fluid)
> Better car control on course.
>
> What i lose:
> Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
> One hand in the pocket, one on the wheel on the cooooooold days.
> Put it in Drive or 3 and go.
> The relative simplicity of the swapover.
>
> For roughly the same price as rebuilding or replacing my 4EAT, i get
> a number of really nice benefits.
>
> Now i think i have to decide between 3.9 and 4.1 gears. Acceleration
> vs mileage and top speed. I'm leaning towards the prior.
>
> Input please!
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, please send an email to:
> BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
>


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it's true. there exists at least one 1993 subaru legacy turbo wagon with a 5 speed manual. i'm using the same ecu and there seem to be no ill effects. Actually i've been wondering when you guys stomp the pedal to the floor does your "power" light come on? i assume it does and it's telling the automatic transmission to stay in gear longer? well the behavior still exists with my manual transmission. And as a joke the light that says "manual" is permanently on =]

i think the power steering is just bad seals so i'm going to replace them as soon as i get parts from subaruparts.com. ignore the upper radiator hose popping off. the legacy made it to san diego(from san francisco) and back like that. i finally got to play this past monday night and there is this gnarly jump in san francisco that i took. high rpm, a little shake and it pop off. oh well.

i will be travelling through the western US and heading eastward mostly in the northern part of the states. i will be popping into vancouver and my final destination is quebec city. my general list of states include: starting in san francisco california, neveda, utah, colorado, wyoming, montana, washington. so if anyone is interested in checking out my car drop me an email or call me. i actually don't have any good pictures of my car yet, but i have lots of pictures of the motor rebuild. http://lexinator.com/cars/legacy

i have an intercooler waiting to be put in. if there are any detail instructions out there on the net please point them out.

lex
lex@lexinator.com
650-333-5930

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "legacycentral" <legacycentral@y...> wrote:
> Well, i'm following in the footsteps of another, i suppose. He's
> already got his engine rebuilt, suspension going in and swapover
> complete. He's just dealing with the quirky things now, like
> radiator hoses popping off and power steering fluid leaking all over
> the place.
>
> He is still using the stock ECU, and apparently this is OK.
>
> I have the finances, it's just that i must force myself to sit on it
> for at least a day or two, to make sure i don't do something stupid.
>
> I know it works, it's just gonna take a little time. I hope to have
> it together for mid-Febuary or March when Alex comes through on is
> tour. Two 5MT Touring Wagons together, that would be cool...
>
> Dave
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > Thanks Dave,
> >
> > You're decision/success may hinge on my decision.....not to make it
> sound like you're the guinia pig
> >
> > Josh


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Well, I've only had my car for a couple of months but it was an auto when it started it's life. Being an ex-prodrive car (even got a prodrive number plate) I imagine it had been tinkered with before a lot of the good stuff was restored back to original. Anyway, it's been a manual shift for donkeys now and no lights come on the dash when I stomp the throttle. Having said that perhaps some dash cables were disconnected... and no I don't know if the ECU is still the boggo auto unit.

----- Original Message -----
From: aludeman <mailto:aludeman@yahoo.com>
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 6:38 PM
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap

it's true. there exists at least one 1993 subaru legacy turbo wagon with a 5 speed manual. i'm using the same ecu and there seem to be no ill effects. Actually i've been wondering when you guys stomp the pedal to the floor does your "power" light come on? i assume it does and it's telling the automatic transmission to stay in gear longer? well the behavior still exists with my manual transmission. And as a joke the light that says "manual" is permanently on =]

i think the power steering is just bad seals so i'm going to replace them as soon as i get parts from subaruparts.com. ignore the upper radiator hose popping off. the legacy made it to san diego(from san francisco) and back like that. i finally got to play this past monday night and there is this gnarly jump in san francisco that i took. high rpm, a little shake and it pop off. oh well.

i will be travelling through the western US and heading eastward mostly in the northern part of the states. i will be popping into vancouver and my final destination is quebec city. my general list of states include: starting in san francisco california, neveda, utah, colorado, wyoming, montana, washington. so if anyone is interested in checking out my car drop me an email or call me. i actually don't have any good pictures of my car yet, but i have lots of pictures of the motor rebuild. http://lexinator.com/cars/legacy

i have an intercooler waiting to be put in. if there are any detail instructions out there on the net please point them out.

lex
lex@lexinator.com
650-333-5930

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "legacycentral" <legacycentral@y...> wrote:
> Well, i'm following in the footsteps of another, i suppose. He's
> already got his engine rebuilt, suspension going in and swapover
> complete. He's just dealing with the quirky things now, like
> radiator hoses popping off and power steering fluid leaking all over
> the place.
>
> He is still using the stock ECU, and apparently this is OK.
>
> I have the finances, it's just that i must force myself to sit on it
> for at least a day or two, to make sure i don't do something stupid.
>
> I know it works, it's just gonna take a little time. I hope to have
> it together for mid-Febuary or March when Alex comes through on is
> tour. Two 5MT Touring Wagons together, that would be cool...
>
> Dave
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > Thanks Dave,
> >
> > You're decision/success may hinge on my decision.....not to make it
> sound like you're the guinia pig
> >
> > Josh



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zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .





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zZz <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

What intercooler are you going to use? If it is the Factory water to
air I can help with advice and probably a part that most of us factory
water to air people overlooked. You mentioned Gary Chambers and Jamie
Gary is in Hawaii but will be back soon. When do you plan on getting
to Colorado?



--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "aludeman" <aludeman@y...> wrote:
> it's true. there exists at least one 1993 subaru legacy turbo wagon
with a 5 speed manual. i'm using the same ecu and there seem to be no
ill effects. Actually i've been wondering when you guys stomp the
pedal to the floor does your "power" light come on? i assume it does
and it's telling the automatic transmission to stay in gear longer?
well the behavior still exists with my manual transmission. And as a
joke the light that says "manual" is permanently on =]
>
> i think the power steering is just bad seals so i'm going to replace
them as soon as i get parts from subaruparts.com. ignore the upper
radiator hose popping off. the legacy made it to san diego(from san
francisco) and back like that. i finally got to play this past monday
night and there is this gnarly jump in san francisco that i took.
high rpm, a little shake and it pop off. oh well.
>
> i will be travelling through the western US and heading eastward
mostly in the northern part of the states. i will be popping into
vancouver and my final destination is quebec city. my general list of
states include: starting in san francisco california, neveda, utah,
colorado, wyoming, montana, washington. so if anyone is interested in
checking out my car drop me an email or call me. i actually don't
have any good pictures of my car yet, but i have lots of pictures of
the motor rebuild. http://lexinator.com/cars/legacy
>
> i have an intercooler waiting to be put in. if there are any detail
instructions out there on the net please point them out.
>
> lex
> lex@l...
> 650-333-5930
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "legacycentral" <legacycentral@y...>
wrote:
> > Well, i'm following in the footsteps of another, i suppose. He's
> > already got his engine rebuilt, suspension going in and swapover
> > complete. He's just dealing with the quirky things now, like
> > radiator hoses popping off and power steering fluid leaking all
over
> > the place.
> >
> > He is still using the stock ECU, and apparently this is OK.
> >
> > I have the finances, it's just that i must force myself to sit on
it
> > for at least a day or two, to make sure i don't do something
stupid.
> >
> > I know it works, it's just gonna take a little time. I hope to
have
> > it together for mid-Febuary or March when Alex comes through on is
> > tour. Two 5MT Touring Wagons together, that would be cool...
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "Josh Colombo" <josh@s...> wrote:
> > > Thanks Dave,
> > >
> > > You're decision/success may hinge on my decision.....not to make
it
> > sound like you're the guinia pig
> > >
> > > Josh


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i have a top mount air/air intercooler from a 93-96 wrx from london. I didn't feel like running all the extra piping and pumps to do water/air intercooler.

i know it's a fairly easy install. i was just hoping someone had a parts list and suggestions on mounting, etc. why think, if someone has done the thinking for me =]

i suspect i will be in colorado in march or so. i figure the later half of march. i have a few friends in denver area and plan to get some snowboarding time in. drop an email to lex@lexinator.com and i'll contact you when i get there.

lex

-- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "milehial2000" <acroxford@h...> wrote:
> What intercooler are you going to use? If it is the Factory water to
> air I can help with advice and probably a part that most of us factory
> water to air people overlooked. You mentioned Gary Chambers and Jamie
> Gary is in Hawaii but will be back soon. When do you plan on getting
> to Colorado?



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I also have the factory water/air intercooler and would like to know
if you have any tricks for this!!

--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "milehial2000" <acroxford@h...> wrote:
> What intercooler are you going to use? If it is the Factory water
to
> air I can help with advice and probably a part that most of us
factory
> water to air people overlooked. You mentioned Gary Chambers and
Jamie
> Gary is in Hawaii but will be back soon. When do you plan on
getting
> to Colorado?
>



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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com

One big trick and a few small ones The water expansion tank (the one
that always breaks) will not clear the intercooler, the lines run
right into it. I have a source that I believe has a few of these tanks
that are made out of aluminum and have modified fittings for the lines
to attach to it. Small one I found a good way to mount the intercooler
,I ran rods up from the transmission bolts using a small bracket to
attach the bottom end these rods are threaded and go through the
original rear mounts of the intercooler with a few rubber bushings and
washers. The front IC mounts are cut off and the throttle body holds
it with a piece of silicone hose. A good place to buy the hose is a
Freightliner or Mack truck maintenance company. They will usually cut
it to length and are open 24/7. I also installed two quick disconnect
fittings so I could remove the intercooler without draining it they
cost me $75.00 ea.
AL(CO)



--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "stu_j_ure" <stu@f...> wrote:
> I also have the factory water/air intercooler and would like to know
> if you have any tricks for this!!
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "milehial2000" <acroxford@h...> wrote:
> > What intercooler are you going to use? If it is the Factory water
> to
> > air I can help with advice and probably a part that most of us
> factory
> > water to air people overlooked. You mentioned Gary Chambers and
> Jamie
> > Gary is in Hawaii but will be back soon. When do you plan on
> getting
> > to Colorado?
> >


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Interesting note, the EJ20T tanks are on the front of the motor, not the
back like the North Anerican EJ22T.
Mark
www.rrunracing.com


-----Original Message-----
From: milehial2000 [mailto:acroxford@hypermall.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 1:45 PM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Re: Now i'm serious....4EAT to MT swap


One big trick and a few small ones The water expansion tank (the one
that always breaks) will not clear the intercooler, the lines run
right into it. I have a source that I believe has a few of these tanks
that are made out of aluminum and have modified fittings for the lines
to attach to it. Small one I found a good way to mount the intercooler
,I ran rods up from the transmission bolts using a small bracket to
attach the bottom end these rods are threaded and go through the
original rear mounts of the intercooler with a few rubber bushings and
washers. The front IC mounts are cut off and the throttle body holds
it with a piece of silicone hose. A good place to buy the hose is a
Freightliner or Mack truck maintenance company. They will usually cut
it to length and are open 24/7. I also installed two quick disconnect
fittings so I could remove the intercooler without draining it they
cost me $75.00 ea.
AL(CO)



--- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "stu_j_ure" <stu@f...> wrote:
> I also have the factory water/air intercooler and would like to know
> if you have any tricks for this!!
>
> --- In BC-BFLegacyWorks@y..., "milehial2000" <acroxford@h...> wrote:
> > What intercooler are you going to use? If it is the Factory water
> to
> > air I can help with advice and probably a part that most of us
> factory
> > water to air people overlooked. You mentioned Gary Chambers and
> Jamie
> > Gary is in Hawaii but will be back soon. When do you plan on
> getting
> > to Colorado?
> >



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BC-BFLegacyWorks-unsubscribe@egroups.com








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