SOS - NO CEL -Broken down in Spokane, WA

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:00 am

I flew down to Portland on Friday and bought Angel from Redlined. A third of the way home the motor has quit. It turns over but will not fire. Also, with ignition in ON position, before trying to start, the CEL does NOT illuminate. So my prelim idea is that the ECU is dead/faulty/unwired.

I knew the car had some issues, CEL has been on the whole trip but it always started immediately and it covered the first few hundred miles without much trouble.

The Idle Air Control valve seems amiss, since the car will stall out in certain situations.

Today, the car was idling and shut itself off. First time it did that on the trip. Motor has always ignited immediately, but this time it does not catch. Without any tools, my diagnostic steps were pretty basic,

***but the most important thing is that the CEL no longer illuminates,

so when I put the key to ON, there is no CEL, when I crank it, there is lots of juice and it turns over hard but does not catch. I tried plugging in the OBD wires but still do not get any CEL illumination.

The car has PP6 wired in, but the box is not installed, there is a bypass that takes it out of the equation. I checked this plug as well as the two harnesses on the bottom of the ECU. They seem secure, and I found no change.

My plan of attack is to look for a Pick n Pull, get some tools and see if I can swap in a spare ECU or whatnot. Any input or support is appreciated. I don't really want to trailer/haul this thing the remaining 500 miles home.

Cheers!

Andrew
alunse@gmail.com
403 918 2739

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:04 am

FWIW, I have been in contact with Dave (Redlined), and he is trying to help but has not had this issue previously.

After speaking with Josh, I am reminded that it could easily be the ECU wiring, especially since it has aftermarkets such as PP6 and other things wired in.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:21 am

Does it just spin over or does it cough and sputter?

BoostedSubie · Post by **BoostedSubie** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:02 am

I live in Spokane and have an extra EJ22t ecu if you do want to test your theory of it being the ecu after you check the wiring.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:07 am

Redlined, it does not sputter/cough, it just spins dead

Boosted, I emailed you, I would like to meet up to grab that ECU from you

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:34 am

You sure it's not something stupid, like a timing belt or fuel pump?

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kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:37 am

Sounds like it's the wiring. I had a similar problem with a jumper harness that was made for me with crimp connections. There was a loose one somewhere and on hard bumps or if you jiggled it under the dash it would die and you could jiggle it again and it would start up again. This was quite the experience doing 70 mph in the fast lane on a very busy freeway in Tacoma rush hour traffic. I eventually took the jumper harness out and cut all the crimp connections off and soldered it all together with heat shrink and the problem has not returned.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:55 am

777th Post

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:12 am

DerFahrer, I am NOT sure. I overlook stupid stuff almost everyday. However, I would like you to weigh in on the issue of suddenly having no fire and no CEL.

It cut out completely and instantaneously, while idling in park. Heat buildup is the only factor I can think of that might have triggered the change. I'm under the impression that until I have the CEL light up with key to ON, I need not look elsewhere.

Kimo, sounds like an interesting drive you had. I wonder what would have happened if I hadn't let it sit idling for so long. Maybe I'd still be rolling, maybe I would have stopped on the I90... But my problem is not responding to wiggling/jiggling the wires.

I ran out of light pretty quickly after buying a cheapo multimeter. Will tackle again tomorrow.

Thanks for all comments and questions, I appreciate the support.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:19 am

The problem got worse over time with the jiggling. I think all the jiggling made the connection break more until it would take way too kuch fondling to get it to work.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:48 pm

So, some basic tests to do to keep busy. The unholy trilogy Fire (spark) water (fuel) air (Self explainitory) Withdraw any one and the engine wont run. Put an old sparkplug in one of the wires and ground it against the block. It should spark when Turning over. If it isnt sparking then you have an Electrical issue. For fuel listen for the Fuel pump when you turn the ignition from off to on. it should hum for a second as it charges the fuel system.

With it suddenly dying while at an idle and then just spinning Over without it trying to start Im inclined to go either Fuel pump ,Timing, or ECU. No CEL light seems indicative of the ECU.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:28 pm

I talked with Andrew last night, and I'm leaning towards the power supply wiring to the ECU or possibly the ignition relay. He tried a non-turbo ECU and again the check engine light did not illuminate. The non-turbo & turbo ECU's do have different pins for the crank & cam sensors, but the CEL light pin is the same and should illuminate with the ECU getting power and the key in the ON position.

Additionally, Andrew said that he was experiencing some idle issues. The IAC power supply is fed from the ignition relay. So like I said, I'm leaning towards bad wiring somewhere in the ignition relay & ECU power supply wiring or a bad ignition relay.

Unfortunately, checking those things are a pain in the butt since it's all tucked up under the dash.

Keep us posted on what you find out.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:00 pm

I am heading back to check the wiring that powers the ECU since it has been spliced by the PP6.

Am hoping to find reparable issue there, since dealing with the Ignition relay will be a monster PITA.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:21 pm

havent heard back and take that to mean good news. Another idea that crossed my mind is the main fuse block under the hood.

No clue if that would cause the issues youre having but thought it would be a good place to look.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:31 pm

Well I talked with Andrew yesterday afternoon/evening.

We discovered multiple issues. The ignition relay appears to be bad. Also, fuse 16 was blowing, which we thought was due to an extra wire that was stuck into it. When we removed that the car ran for a block or so and the fuse popped again. I suggested pulling other fuses on that circuit to reduce the load on the circuit. The last text I got from him he had pulled the fuse for abs/cruise and the one for turn signals to keep the car running and going along.

There's definitely a short and/or other wiring issues that need to be sorted out, and without some time and a good meter to trace down each circuit it's a guesing game.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:09 pm

Josh is a hero among men.

His knowledge was sufficient to be helpful even when he took my phone calls while walking outdoors.

When he had his diagrams and online resources at his disposal he was like Sam Jackson in Jurassic Park guiding me toward the heart of the system to reset the breakers and contain the terror!!

Am limping home now as he mentioned above, and will have a bit of wiring work to do when I get there.

Updates to follow.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:42 am

Thank you to the bbs and all individuals that responded to my SOS.

TLDR of the below = I got home safely with a fuse pulled, haven't had time to address the issue properly, and have now found additional issues.

In the end I was only broken down for about 25 hours. Not too bad looking back on it, but at the time I wasn't sure if I would get the car home in the end.

Josh informed me of the fuses shared on the circuit and assisted me to guess and check and isolate the problem. With under-dash fuse #1 (Rear Marker and Signals) removed, the short was alleviated and I had power the whole way home again.

Before the fuses were in play however, I first removed the harness from the Ignition relay, and jumped the terminals. This is what first restored power to my ECU. However, this is when I first noticed the fuse go out. I could smell it and within seconds I lost power that had been re-established from the jumpers.

I am not wholly certain about the direction of causality. Since getting home, I did spend a frustrated 20 minutes attempting to reconnect the harness back on to the Ignition relay, but I have not succeeded in reconnecting it yet. So I am not sure yet if the relay is operational or bad.

I bought Angel (possibly to be renamed Demon) in August because the timing worked well for me to be out of town. But I don't have time to immediately undertake all the work that the car needs to get well again.

I will be addressing all maintenance/rehab issues as well as my planned 4EAT -> 5MT swap in other threads going forward. But I will mention currently discovered issues here now.

Since returning, I have noticed a few more issues to be addressed:
- it dropped to 3 cylinders briefly. The problem righted itself while still on the road driving on the freeway. And I have not driven it since because:
- I noticed #2 fuel injector is leaking gas out the top and down onto the valve cover. I suspect bad o-ring/install and decided to change the oil before running it anymore (since fuel in the oil is what killed my last SS) and,

Bonus - I encountered a bizarre problem: Napa oil filters do not thread onto my filter housing. I ended up buying a blue Subaru filter from dealership after trying 2 different Napa filters. The Napa manager triple checked his Part #s and physically measured the 2 (Pro Select and Napa Gold) as well as the old one I uninstalled. He double checked for thread pitch and diameter as well as gasket fitment. The Napa ones were both within spec, and measurably the same as the one that has been installed. He said no one has ever brought an oil filter back saying that it does not fit, and I even questioned my sanity. But despite 12 minutes of fiddling with the threads I could not get either Napa filter to start, and the Subaru filter was on 12 seconds. It seems inexplicable...

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:55 am

A few more highlights from the drive through the cascades in Oregon/Washington. The thread can end here. I will address ongoing issues in new topics under the relevant categories. If is better for me to put these in Pictures/Multimedia with a link here, I will do that upon request from admin.

Oregon view

Mt Hood

Mt St Helens

Mt Ranier

Camping Companion

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:34 pm

Beautiful photos! You definately have an Eye for it!

I swapped out an O-ring on the drivers side. after the mechanic I sent her to failed to do it for three weeks.... For the life of me I cant remember which cylinder it was. It is a quick, easy, cheap process. I replaced all the philips head bolts on the fuel rails with Hex head bolts so it should be a breeze. As I recall the tough part was finding the correct O-ring, That might have something to do with the Engine miss also. if the Fuel system Leaked pressure out then the Injectors wouldn't function properly.

Keep us informed!

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Andrew,

Glad you got home ok.

Nice pictures of the trip!

Regarding the fuel injectors, you could try sending it to a shop to get balanced/cleaned and have them replace all the O-rings. That might be a better option.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:12 am

Glad you enjoyed the photos.

I drove the car out to my friends workshop, where it will spend September in the air.

I decided to plunge directly into the transmission swap. I will remove the 4EAT immediately and get my 5MT in as soon as parts and knowledge allow. And I will defer engine issues until after it is done. All I did today was pull the exhaust and propeller shaft (driveline for some). Thanks in advance to Josh for how well documented your swap is. Without that resource I might not attempt this.

The wiring will be addressed during the TCU delete and ECU swap/mod. Intercooler is already off, and I will likely replace all vacuum lines. I might just order new injector o-rings, but I do like the idea of getting the injectors completely serviced (although I would need to research where).

I still catch myself differentiating this car from my previous SS by referring to the old one as "my car". When will Angel feel like my own? When I register it? When it moves from project-in-my-mind to daily-in-my-life? When I rename it? Not sure yet. But I guess I will add it to my signature now.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:35 pm

RC Engineering will do fuel injector cleaning/balancing. However there may be some place closer to you or in Canada.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:17 am

Thanks Josh, I will need to do this soon.

I started a thread dedicated to the transmission swap here.

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