ej20g question

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:14 am

The #4 cylinder in my ej22g is dead (zero compression, suspect hole in the piston).

I found an ej20g, and I am planning on doing an engine swap. The ej20g is missing the cross over pipe (exhaust), but other than that, it is pretty complete. Does anyone know if my ej22 cross over pipe will fit on the eg20? I figured I'd ask here before I pull the pipe on my engine and take it to the engine place to see if it will fit.

Also, I'm planning on using my eg22t ecu and harness to run the new engine. From what I've read, it seems this should work. Does anyone have any information that would contradict this assumption (aside from the fact that my ecu will not be optimum, the ignition will need to be changed, and that the injector flow rates are different)? Oh yeah, I'm assuming the ej20g came out of an early '90's legacy (black awic, flex plate), but I'm not positive, as I couldn't find any ID markings other than "EJ20" stamped on the block.
Thanks

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:58 am

The cross-pipe will work.

I think you have to change some wiring too when swapping in an EJ20G. PM Matt Monson, I think he has a wiring harness adapter for the EJ22T to EJ20G swap.

You'll be running rich with the EJ20G 440cc injectors. That's better then running lean though.

I was actually looking to do the same swap, since I too have no compression on #4, but ended up not getting the motor. I'm still looking for another motor...

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:05 am

Matt,
You need to visit the classifieds more often. My motor is still for sale...

Heel Hooker,
Berzeerkely eh? I lived there for 12 glorious years of my life, and lived in the bay for 30 of my 33.

Anyways, on topic:
Legos. The cross pipe works no problemo. You can run the EJ20G on your ECU, but you will need to find a home for your coilpack since the EJ20G uses a coil on plug ignition. What you would do is wire in your engine harness onto the EJ20G and strap the coil pack down somewhere. A couple of guys around here have done this.

OR, my 1994 WRX ECU is for sale and will run this engine perfectly. I would include a pigtail harness to easily wire in the coil on plug igntion (and 4 spare coils, since you have 4 on the engine as well) You would only need to pull the a couple of pins from your ECU and wire mine in through the firewall and presto, your car thinks it is a WRX. Of course, if you do that, you will want to be sure to run some sort of intercooler since the WRX ECU will run around 13.5psi...

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:34 am

Thanks for all the information. It's good to know that the cross pipe will work.

I'm going to try to buy the engine tomorrow, and if there is not too much rain, hopefully I'll get it in this week.

Regarding the injectors, has anyone experimented with fuel pressure?

Flow rate varies wtih the square root of the fuel pressure, so I was thinking if I could lower the pressure to about 70% (370/440)^2 of what it is now the flow rate with the new injectors would be about eqal to that of the old injectors. What is the minimum pressure to ensure proper fuel atomization?

Matt M.,

12 years in berkeley...wow. I've been here for about 9, and the weather is about the only thing that makes it hard to want to leave.

I'll see if I can live with how the car runs on my ecu, and I'll keep your wrx ecu in mind. The engine has an awic on it.

Yeah, I was planning on installing the coil pack on top of the intake manifold like on the ej22. I'm hoping it will clear the hood.

Matt,

I remember reading the thread about your possible engine swap. What was the damage to your #4 cylinder? I was surprised how smooth my engine was running on 3 cylinders...weird.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:06 am

Are you sure it's not a bad exhaust valve? I suspected the same thing, but found it was just a valve on #3.

Steve

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:25 am

heelhooker wrote:
Matt,

I remember reading the thread about your possible engine swap. What was the damage to your #4 cylinder? I was surprised how smooth my engine was running on 3 cylinders...weird.

I haven't actually opened it up yet so I don't know for sure how much damage there is but I know the rings are toast at best but suspect piston and/or cylinder wall damage too.

Mine ran really smooth too! I could tell it was off just from knowing my car so well but it wasn't off by much. Multiple people rode in my car and thought it felt good too. It was crazy.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:36 pm

Matt actually HEARD that the car was broken. Un-friggin-believable. I was boggled at just how he could hear that kind of thing. It sounded normal to me, but nope. He not only heard it, but he called it "sounds like #4." Woah.

Jr.SubaruLvr · Post by **Jr.SubaruLvr** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:08 pm

i just put in a jdm sti v7 crosspipe on my ej22t and it bolted up perfectly. Make sure to get new gaskets when installing it. Took me awhile to find one, but eventually i did. Guy has more if anyone needs one.

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:48 am

evolutionmovement wrote:Are you sure it's not a bad exhaust valve? I suspected the same thing, but found it was just a valve on #3.

Steve

I hope it's a valve... I'll find out when I take it apart.

I think mine runs so smooth on three cylinders because there is NO compression in the bad cylinder. When I tested it, the starter sounded like it was turning by itself.

I picked up the ej20g today. The operation will start tomorrow.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:44 am

You mean it sounded like the starter wasn't connecting with anything? Are you sure you didn't snap the timing belt?

Steve

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:35 am

The timing belt is not broken (engine still runs on 3 cylinders), but that's how it sounded when I checked compression on #4...absolutely no resistance due to compression.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:45 pm

Gotcha. Was there tons of oil in there?

Steve

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:59 am

Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be too much oil in the cylinder...maybe it is a bad valve.

Does anyone know if usdm wrx intake manifold gaskets will work on the older ej20g? I had to take the manifold off to switch harnesses.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:25 pm

No,
The EJ20G uses an older in-line bolt pattern on the manifold. You can use the gaskets for a '98 RS DOHC motor, but they will be a little narrower than the 20G gasket. The width of the mouth is 2 1/16" on the EJ20G while it is 2" on the DOHC EJ25. If you have an exacto, you should be able to cut out a little bit to prevent unneeded turbulence. OR you can just use them stock and have a slight flow restriction at the gasket...

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:18 am

Excellent. Thanks

My friend is in Australia, and I was going to ask him to go to a dealer down there to try to buy some. This simplifies things.

Rain has held up my progress over the last few days. It was dry today, and hopefully the rain will hold off for the next few days so I can get this done.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:16 pm

Or you can call Rallispec. They can get you the EJ20G gaskets...

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:52 am

I bought a pair of the 2.5RS gaskets, and they are the same size as the ej20g ones (+/- few/1000").

I pulled the heads off the old engine, and besides a bad head gasket, I didn't see any obvious damage. I was seriously expectiing to see a huge hole in the #4 piston. I can see some sort of ej22g hybrid in the future...

I'm starting to get all of the parts on the new engine. Hopefully it will be running by the end of the week.

EJ20TMAN · Post by **EJ20TMAN** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:36 pm

legacy92ej22t wrote:The cross-pipe will work.

I think you have to change some wiring too when swapping in an EJ20G. PM Matt Monson, I think he has a wiring harness adapter for the EJ22T to EJ20G swap.

You'll be running rich with the EJ20G 440cc injectors. That's better then running lean though.

I was actually looking to do the same swap, since I too have no compression on #4, but ended up not getting the motor. I'm still looking for another motor...

EJ20G's DONT have 440's they have 380 grey tops. Only EJ20K, EJ205 (not all), EJ206, EJ208 and EJ20R have 440's

EJ20TMAN · Post by **EJ20TMAN** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:38 pm

heelhooker wrote:Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be too much oil in the cylinder...maybe it is a bad valve.

Does anyone know if usdm wrx intake manifold gaskets will work on the older ej20g? I had to take the manifold off to switch harnesses.

UDSM WRX (02 on ?) gaskets will not work, the bolt pattern changed in 99

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:56 pm

EJ20TMAN wrote:
legacy92ej22t wrote:The cross-pipe will work.

I think you have to change some wiring too when swapping in an EJ20G. PM Matt Monson, I think he has a wiring harness adapter for the EJ22T to EJ20G swap.

You'll be running rich with the EJ20G 440cc injectors. That's better then running lean though.

I was actually looking to do the same swap, since I too have no compression on #4, but ended up not getting the motor. I'm still looking for another motor...
EJ20G's DONT have 440's they have 380 grey tops. Only EJ20K, EJ205 (not all), EJ206, EJ208 and EJ20R have 440's

Funny,
We had RC engineering flow test them and they tested at 440cc. Something tells me your AUS/NZ spec is 380cc while the JDM spec engines we are acquiring are 440cc...

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:22 am

I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but the ej20g gray top injectors seem to be interchangeable with the ej22g pink top injectors. The pertinent dimensions are the same, and I was able to seat the pink tops in the ej20 rails with no problem.

Now I don't have to worry about running rich until I get some kind of upgraded fuel controls.

The engine is still sitting in the garage. I had to order some silicon tubing and various fittings because a bunch of the hoses were very dry, and some cracked.

As for the harness, I extended the leads for the IAC valve, water temp sensor, and the TPS. It all went together nicely.

EJ20TMAN · Post by **EJ20TMAN** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:55 am

Matt Monson wrote:
EJ20TMAN wrote:
legacy92ej22t wrote:The cross-pipe will work.

I think you have to change some wiring too when swapping in an EJ20G. PM Matt Monson, I think he has a wiring harness adapter for the EJ22T to EJ20G swap.

You'll be running rich with the EJ20G 440cc injectors. That's better then running lean though.

I was actually looking to do the same swap, since I too have no compression on #4, but ended up not getting the motor. I'm still looking for another motor...
EJ20G's DONT have 440's they have 380 grey tops. Only EJ20K, EJ205 (not all), EJ206, EJ208 and EJ20R have 440's
Funny,
We had RC engineering flow test them and they tested at 440cc. Something tells me your AUS/NZ spec is 380cc while the JDM spec engines we are acquiring are 440cc...

Thing is NZ only recives JDM cars, and its confirmed grey tops are 380, and yellow tops are 440. There was one EJ20G to have 440's that was the impreza WRX STI RA ver 3 and that had yellows

heelhooker · Post by **heelhooker** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:21 am

Instead of using the ej22 coil pack and plug wires, I am thinking about retaining the four ej20 coils and having cylinders 1/3 and 2/4 fire simultaneously (just like the ej22 system). This would require two coils to fire at the same time. Will the igniter be able to handle this? Any other reasons this would be a bad idea?

Thanks

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:40 pm

The wiring will be little tricky, but no insurrmountable.

EJ20Tman,
Have you got a tech document to support your claims? Because as I stated, our testing by a company that does nothing but injectors states otherwise...

EJ20TMAN · Post by **EJ20TMAN** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:51 am

I have had confrmation from possum bourne motorsport that they are 380cc, also power levels people have pulled from the EJ20G injectors are pretty much spot on for 380cc . Maybe the injector company uses a diffent test method to the poeple the make the injectors that results in a differnt CC rating??

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