Does anyone have a California Emissions turbo Legacy, or...

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:02 am

We have two scenarios:

Subaru made all Legacy Turbo to Califronia emissions

OR

Subaru made California specific Legacy Turbo

I dont have my service manuals with me but I remember that NA Legacy have a difference. It could just be a jumper on the ECU while all other items are the same. Either way Id like to know what your emissions sticker says.

One sticker can be seen in this thread http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=14428

eastbaysubaru · Post by **eastbaysubaru** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:59 am

I think they're all to Cali spec, but I'm not positive. I'll go check my hood right now and get back to you in a few ciper.

-Brian

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:06 am

That was what I thought but still haven't been home to check the service manual or out to my car to check the tag...I will tell you in the am if you don't already know...

eastbaysubaru · Post by **eastbaysubaru** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:40 am

Interesting. There's no stickers on my hood. None at all. Sorry ciper, no help here unfortunately.

-Brian

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:47 am

eastbaysubaru: Uh oh. You know what that means right?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:46 pm

The ECU definitely knows whether it's in a California car or a Federal/Canada car.

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/ecupins

Pin 11 of connector B56 is the "jurisdiction ID."

On California cars, that pin is grounded. On Federal/Canada cars, it is left floating.

As far as I know, none of the emissions control hardware itself differs.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:05 pm

VRG3: So we just short the jumper for smog reasons?

Does anyone have a reader that can verify the function?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:11 pm

To make the car CA-spec, you short that pin to ground, yes.

I don't know anything about how it changes the ECU's behavior.

If you hook up a Select Monitor, it can tell you whether the ECU is in CA mode or Federal/Canada mode.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:05 am

I've got a select monitor, no cartridge for the turbo legacy though.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:27 am

Would it be too much to ask for you to check your car, then ground the pin and check again?

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:38 am

I could try it I guess if I have time.

I'll see if things work out this weekend to do it & let ya know.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:40 am

The Select Monitor cartridges handle both turbo and non-turbo cars.

Ciper - I also have a Select Monitor. What exactly is it you would like to find out?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:15 pm

I want to find out what the ECU says regarding California or Federal, and what change if any grounding the pin makes.

If I can take a "Federal" ECU and ground the pin and make the ODB readout say California that would be great.
If it does state this at all of course.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:26 pm

I couldn't find anything in my Chilton manual. They suck compared to the Helms, but of course factory is best. Anyways, I looked at the sticker on my hood and it says it meets EPA standards. No CA mention at all. Surprises me that on such a limited production vehicle they didn't just make them all CA compliant for ease of manufacture

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:26 pm

When you put the Select Monitor in mode FA0, it lights up LEDs to reflect the status of seven switches: IG (ignition switch, determined by Ignition Switch pin), AT (automatic transmission, determined by Transmission ID pin), UD (test mode, determined by Test Mode Connector pin), RM (read mode, determined by Read Mode Connector pin), NT (neutral switch, determined by Neutral Switch pin), PK (park switch, determined by Park Switch pin), and FC (Federal/California switch, determined by Jurisdiction ID pin).

On my car, the FC light is on normally. When I ground the Jurisdiction ID pin, it turns off. I can do this even while the car is running.

You can definitely take a "Federal" ECU and ground the pin. There's no such thing as a "Federal" or "California" EJ22T ECU, just like there's no such thing as an automatic or manual EJ22T ECU. They're just different modes determined by the switches.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:33 pm

Thank you. I knew that different ECU's didnt exist this way, thats why I used qoutes to show that it was an ECU originally installed in a federal car.

Now, does anyone have an OBD reader that can check? Does the ODB reader state California or Federal? If so can you try grounding the pin?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:38 pm

I did the check with the Select Monitor.

eastbaysubaru · Post by **eastbaysubaru** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:19 pm

I'm not quite sure what not having the stickers means. I assume they came off when the hood got replaced back in '97ish after the accident I got into. What does it really mean though ciper?

-Brian

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:51 pm

Eastbaysubaru: I was going to say the hood was replaced, and this is usually because the car was in an accident. If you knew about an accident already then its a moot point!

Vrg3: I understand you used the Select Monitor. I was asking if someone could check with an ODB scanner, like what the Referee would use. I doubt they have a select monitor.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:06 am

But there's no such thing as a generic OBD-I scantool. Any third-party scantools that work with OBD-I Subarus are basically just Select Monitor emulators built by reverse engineering a Select Monitor.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:59 am

like vrg3 said.....there is really no other type of obd1 scan tool.

IMO, you're worrying about the california/fed thing too much. They're not going to be able to tell.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:21 am

Why do you guys say such thing? Generic scan tools show less information and display the other items in different ways. Ive used plenty of them to know this.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:32 am

have you used one on a first gen legacy?? what other scan tools have you used, and on what cars/years?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:44 am

Which ones have you used?

So-called "generic" OBD-I scantools are anything but. They actually implement many different scantools in one box. OBD-I is not a standard at all; it's just a retroactively-applied name (needed when they defined the OBD-II standard) to the first generation of onboard diagnostics used in cars.

I have an OBD-I scantool that is meant to handle all Asian cars made up through 1990. It comes with different cables for Subarus, Mazdas, Toyotas, etc. You tell it what kind of car you're hooking it up to when you turn it on. It then uses whatever proprietary protocol that manufacturer's factory scantools use, based on what they were able to reverse engineer. Since their reverse engineering skills are sometimes limited, they usually only manage to get a subset of the full scantool functionality.

I would highly doubt that the smog ref would be permitted to rely on readings from a device that uses reverse-engineered information and that Subaru does not certify as applicable to their cars.

In any case, you're really worrying about nothing. The Federal and California ECUs are the same. The listed part numbers don't differentiate.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:29 am

"In any case, you're really worrying about nothing. The Federal and California ECUs are the same. The listed part numbers don't differentiate."

For the second and third sentences I agree.

For the first its not correct.
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage.asp ... n_1994.htm

California Certification
A federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) certified (federal or 49-state) engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally certified for California.

Dont misunderstand, I hope Im wrong! I have to be sure though.

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Does anyone have a California Emissions turbo Legacy, or...

Does anyone have a California Emissions turbo Legacy, or...