How long before springs wear out?

[mikesoob7]

I've got a '91 Legacy wagon with 225K. The springs aren't broken but could they be worn out or does it generally take longer than that? What tools do I need to test them?

Mike

[entirelyturbo]

Springs shouldn't "wear out" per se, at least I've never heard of it. If you're feeling a floaty suspension, it's about a 99.999% chance your struts are tired. They do wear out, I've already replaced all 4 of mine, and plan on doing it again soon to upgrade.

[vrg3]

Springs do get tired too. Overloading them (by exceeding the gross axle weight rating, for example) can speed the process.

When I got my car with only 84,000 miles on it, the rear springs sagged enough to cause rubbing even with stock-size tires on stock wheels when the rear was even moderately loaded. Replacing the struts helped a lot but didn't eliminate the problem. I have rubber spacers stuck in my rear springs right now to increase the spring rate. I guess the previous owner hauled a lot of crap in the trunk and/or rear seat.

There are specifications in the factory service manual for how high the car should sit and how large the fender gap should be. If these dimensions are out of spec, it usually means either that something is bent or that the struts and/or springs are worn out. I don't have the 91 FSM, but maybe you could cajole Josh (Legacy777) into scanning the relevant page or two of his.

[BAC5.2]

My rear sags a lot. More than Matt's 92 does, and he's 40k miles up on me. I think my springs are pooched.

Struts and springs are my next mod path. *sigh* so expensive

[LaureltheQueen]

springs were dead in my 91 wagon.


Phil, springs and struts shoulda been your first mods, never increase power without first increasing control.

[Soobster]

So what choices does a 1991 Legacy Wagon owner have for replacing springs that will not lower the vehicle signifigantly?

Are there any less expensive alternatives than buying OEM springs from the dealer, which i imagine will be quite expensive.

On the other hand, does the Whiteline "Control" set really lower the car that much? They say it could be between 25-40mm, 25mm wouldn't be that bad but a 40mm drop would be too much for my car and the fresh powder that I have to get through to reach the highway.

[jamal]

Strut and sping take-offs from a WRX wagon might not be a bad idea. A little more than $200 or so in decent shape. Only thing you need are different rear top hats, or to reuse your existing hats (which could be all old and worn out. Syphon posted about his install. I guess he needed a washer in the back, too, because the strut wasn't threaded enough.

I'm putting STi take-offs in my car. That guy had better have shipped them by now.

There's a nice search function, and scottzg compiled an information compendium which is stickied, if you haven't seen it. Spend some time looking around and you'll learn a lot. I know I have since I joined.

I found this thread on nasioc the other day. With the right perches, and tops, I think any subaru spring will fit on any Subaru car with any subaru strut.

[LaureltheQueen]

The Whiteline control springs are excellent. I wouldnt' suggest going with a wrx wagon setup, as the wrx wagon doesnt have nearly the weight over the ass as the legacy,and it'll look even more saggy in back. When I installed my control springs on my 91, I pulled top hats off a 92 at the junkyard($5) and also used AGX struts.

If you DO decide to use the whitelines, I've been told that GR2s aren't built to hold up to a lowered application, KYB suggests the AGXs for this purpose, and I wholeheartedly agree, I LOVE my AGXs.

I didn't get dropped more than 1.5" max

I have some photos...
Here's my 91 Before Lowering
http://69.73.145.197/laurel/Ruby/supercoolflames.jpg
Here's my 91 after lowering
http://69.73.145.197/laurel/Ruby/Feb%20003.jpg
Here's the 92 Turbo pre-suspension swap
http://69.73.145.197/laurel/2004%20Apri ... C00867.JPG
There she is with the suspension install
http://69.73.145.197/laurel/2005%20Janu ... G_0486.JPG


If you have any questions at all, IM or PM me, I love this shit

[AWD_addict]

Any other options that would lower as little as possible?
I don't want to be about 1.5" lower. But then again, I might be there already due to old susp. sag.

[Soobster]

I read somewhere within the suspension section's many threads that linear springs should be matched with liner struts and progressive springs with progessive struts. The whiteline fronts are linear and the whiteline rears are progressive.

Are the AGXs for the rear a progressive strut?

Is this concern unfounded?

I'm going to price check stock springs when I go into the dealer next, to pick up the 91 FSM Vol 5. on suspension and steering.

[Soobster]

From the Suspension Info. Compendium (I like that word....compendium.....compendium, fun to type)

The best spring match for an AWD wagon would be the STI Pink series or the Prodrive P1 (rear spring rates are equivalent). However, the front springs have a much higher spring rate than the wagon's stock rate of 134. The 02-03 STI Pinks are 215 and 257 for the 04' STI Pinks.

Will these bad boys fit an AWD Legacy wagon (are the springs the same height just with a increased spring rate), and if so will the dramatic increase in front spring rate serve to lessen understeer problems or make them more dramatic?

[scottzg]

If you DO decide to use the whitelines, I've been told that GR2s aren't built to hold up to a lowered application, KYB suggests the AGXs for this purpose, and I wholeheartedly agree, I LOVE my AGXs.

My understanding was that the gr2 could handle lowering better than the agx because the lowered agx could smack the adjustment valve and kill it where the gr2 has no valve. I'll give you that the agx can be tuned to handle the higher rate where the gr2 can't, and you could set the agx really stiff to minimize the travel. But if kyb said it, i'll believe them. I thought i had the kyb sentiments too.

The progressive part of the whitelines could be dead when the spring is loaded, or it could be a very small part of the travel, it's hard to say just by looking at my numbers in the SIC. I'd ask whiteline what they reccomend.

Even if the spring rates are the same doesnt mean the ride height will be the same. It might ride like a rock and have saggy ass, which wouldnt surprise me. I think the winning thing to do for wagon owners would be to either get the whiteline or other 'designed for wagon' springs, or buy fronts and rears from different series's to suit the factory ratio. GC front springs can be fitted to the rear with no change in ride height. I pity wagon owners when it comes to suspension.

And soobster, to answer your profile. There is no way to fix your on-throttle understeer, due to the type of drivetrain. It's not necessarily bad though since the car will oversteer under braking or by use of weight transfer.

Where is oak run? I'm in san jose

[LaureltheQueen]

I would wholeheartedly agree with scott on sticking with wagon springs. There's no real reason not to. Either get wagon springs, or coilover sleeves. That's all there is to it.


The AGX's adjustment knob in rear is under the spring perch. There's no chance that anything will hit it. I'll take photos today while I'm doing my rear brakes. The AGX's need to be set on at least the middle setting for running the whitelines, where the GR2s are equivalent to somewhere below that from what I've read. Anyway, My suspension setup kicks ass for being springs/struts, there's no way I'd be willing to go with anything else, unless it was a full coilover system so I could dump the car.

[Soobster]

I'm going to answer my own question here for the sake of posterity.

From the 1991 Factory Service Manual: Wheel Arch Height Measuring.

Measurments for proper ride height are taken from the center of your hub straight up to the outside edge of your fender. Unloaded vehicle.

Measurements are in millimeters.
------------------------------------------------
FWD
Front Rear
Sedan 388+/-10 369+/-10

Wagon 383+/-10 369+/-10
--------------------------------------------------
4WD
Front Rear
Sedan 388+/-10 369+/-10

Wagon 388+/-10 379+/-10


If you are sitting lower than this with stock springs then you need to consider purchasing replacements.

If you can take the springs off, you can also measure their total unloaded height. I'm looking for that data and will post it soon.

I price checked OEM springs and they run ~ $90 each for both fronts and rears, so about $360 plus tax for the whole set. I guess if you don't mind lowering your ride that the whiteline set is actually a very good price relative to the the OEM parts.

FYI: Also, the whitleine front and rear stabilizer bar (sway bar) endlinks are priced about $10 less than the plastic OEM replacment parts.

[Soobster]

the chart formatting got all messed up on that. lame.

the first number in the row is fronts and the second is rears