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 Post subject: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:45 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:44 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Puyallup WA
As some of you know from my other threads (HERE and HERE), I have been working on a way to easily adapt the 4 channel direct fire igntion of the EJ20G ECU to work with the stock 2 channel waste spark ignition of the EJ22T. The purpose of this is to make it possible to swap out the stock EJ22T ECU for an EJ20G ECU (be it stock, tuned, or even a EJ20G specific aftermarket EMS like the PowerFC). I will use this this thread update the progress and to answer any questions.


BACKGROUND
The EJ22T ignition system is a 2 channel "wasted spark" setup with an external coil pack and an external 2 channel igniter. The ECU sends out two alternating trigger signals to the igniter. Each signal causes the coil to fire on one of the two paired cylinders. The cylinders are paired to the coil such that the spark arrives on the compression of one and the exhaust stroke of the other. With a firing order of 1-3-2-4, the cylinders that are 180 deg out of phase would be Cyl1-Cyl2 and Cyl3-Cyl4.

The EJ20G setup is for is a four channel coil on plug (COP). There are four coils each of which are molded to the sparkplug boots are physically located in the spark plug wells. Each coil has two wires, +B and the output of the igniter. Each coil pack is grounded through the mounting bolts to the head. There is a 4-channel external igniter that outputs to the individual coils and also takes as input four trigger signals from the ECU.

To boil it down, the EJ20G ECU will send out four igniter triggers, each trigger is sent 360deg apart when the EJ22T igner is expecting two 180deg apart. It is not possible to simply plug the EJ20G ECU into the EJ22t harness and expect the ignition system to just work.

The job of the 4to2 converter is to take as input the 4ch triggers from the EJ20G ECU and to output the equivalent EJ22T ECU 2ch signals to the stock igniter and coilpack.

INSTALLATION

Installation is pretty straight forward. Use this connector pinout as reference. The color of the circle represents the color of the wire from the converter box.

Image

1) De-pin the original two wires that go to the igniter. These are on connector F47.10 (yellow-green) and F47.9 (green-white)
2) Insert the pre-pinned wires from the converter; F47.10 (yellow), F47.9 (green), F47.8 (yellow), F47.7 (green). The pinned yellow wires are interchangeable with each other as well are the pinned green wires with each other.
3) Tap or solder the non pinned yellow wire to the yellow-green wire removed from F47.10. Do the same for the green wire to the green-white wire depinned from F47.9
4) Tap or solder the black ground wire to F47.14 (black-white)
5) Tap or solder the red power wire to F48.2 (yellow-blue or yellow-red)


This picture represents the stock setup before adding the converter.

Image

Here is what it will look with the ignition converter in place after adding the EJ20G ECU.

Image

Here is a picture that shows all connections to the F47 plug. You can see in step 3 that I soldered directly to the pins of the factory wires.

Image


CURRENT STATUS


6-24-11:
I fitted my first production unit on The Mule, and am happy to report it works just as well as the prototype. I pushed the boost up a bit and rung it out to 7k. It runs flawlessly.

At this point I am ready to take my first set of orders! I should have my first nine finished this weekend. Send me email direct on what you want and I will pass along paypal details.

rob . files @ gmail . com

6-15-11:
I handed off the test mule still running my prototype back to Drew for some unbiased opinions on how it runs. I'll let him elaborate if he likes, but the report was that as far as the ignition system goes, it runs as stock.

Ok, parts and PCBs came back last week. I worked on assembling the first one. I did miss one trace on the board, so the first batch will need a blue wire...damn. I am working on a small test bench in order to verify each one build actually works. I also need to pick up some more wire, then I think I will be ready to take orders; maybe as soon as next week. I have settled on prices;

Converter = $90 ($70 for those already running my tune)
Converter + Tune = $350
Converter + EJ20G ECU + Tune = $455

Shipping in the US is inclusive.

After the first one is finished, I'll post a pic.

6-5-11:
I got some road testing in this weekend with the converter and the EJ20G ECU on Drew's car. I installed a watered down version of my tune (max boost @12psi) as there is no boost gauge yet. Short story is that it runs fantastic. This bitch is done! I have sent the PCBs out for fab and have parts ordered. Once I get the final BOM figured out and an idea how difficult it is going to be assemble with all of these surface mount parts I will have pricing info.

5-23-11:After yet another complete circuit re-design, I am happy to report my prototype is up and running. I don't want to jump the gun and call it done until I get some good road miles first, but all looks solid. It starts, idles and revs perfectly on both the EJ22T stock ECU and the EJ20G ECU. Once I am satisfied after driving it I will finish up my PCB design and order parts for production.

4-20-11 I finally figured out why the proto wasn't working correctly wired into the car. It was a tough nut to crack. Basically what it comes down to is that I didn't properly characterize the signals used between the ECU and igniter and made assumptions based on my experience with Toyota parts. Once I figured out why the chip wasn't behaving correctly, I dug out the O-scope and verified, which I should have done first thing! It is an example of sloppy engineering; bad on me! I need to add a couple electrical components and it should be good. Parts are on order and will be able to pick up testing in a few days. I also found the correct source for ECU connector crimp terminals. This will greatly simplify installation.

4-11-11 More progress on the testing, but the proto is not done yet. I tinkered around on the bench and solved a few issues. Now it's back on the car, but still not behaving nicely. No matter how hard it tries, the car still won't run on 2 cylinders... The fun debug continues.

4-4-11: I am happy to report that I now have Drew's Franken-mule back in the garage for on car testing! I attempted to hook up the prototype and ran into my first issue. In an attempt to simplify installation I purchased a bunch of compatible ECU plug terminals. The theory being one would simply de-pin the stock wires and re-pin with my converter. Pretty slick eh? Well it turns out that even though the terminals are really really close, they just don't fit right. Ballz. I will have to rethink how to handle that. In the meantime, I worked around that and attempted to run the stock ECU with the converter. I recently modified the design to allow for it to work with either the stock ECU or EJ20G ecu without having to change the wiring. Feeling proud of myself and acting a bit too smartzy, I skipped the bench test after the change figuring it would work out of the box. Well.....not so smartzy after all. Car doesn't like it so much, so it's now back on the bench it goes :) Once I get it sorted my plan is to run the car with the stock ECU for a bit to verify it runs the same with the converter in place. After that I will switch out to the EJ20G for final testing.

2-10-11: I am bench testing design #3 (I think its #3...I am starting to lose track :) ). The results as of yesterday look perfect . I only have one or two small additional experiments before moving to a prototype installed on a test vehicle. I had a prototype of the last design installed on the test vehicle and while it ran the car 98% fine, of course I wasn't happy with the remaining 2%. My assessment was that the ignition timing was not being preserved consistently and that showed up most obviously in the idle. Obviously any unintended modification of the timing is a bad thing and that was the main reason I had to go back to the drawing board. I am happy to say that from all of my bench testing, that issue is gone with the new circuit.

-Rob


Last edited by rob on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:10 am, edited 17 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:46 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:44 pm
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Location: Puyallup WA
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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:31 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:28 am
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Location: Clatskanie, Or
I'm getting excited. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:53 pm 
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I was holding off getting a harness made in favor of one of these, but I couldn't wait any longer and pulled the trigger just two weeks ago. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:44 pm
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Location: Puyallup WA
Sometimes excellence takes a little longer than expected :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:24 am
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Location: Lynnwood, Wa.
Haha, me too Mike. COP here i go. Maybe on the other tleg will i use this converter. Good job Rob, I think there's gonna be a lot of excited people.

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:37 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:43 am
Posts: 117
Location: Monroe, WA
I'm excited too.

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:07 am
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Location: Maine
thats pretty slick Rob!

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:04 am
Posts: 334
Location: mile high
Yeah! :D

Was waiting for the EJ22T ECU tune, but if the ignition modification is "easy" I could jump on the EJ20G ECU.

(EJ22T ECU would still be prefered :wink: )

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Great news!

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:12 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 198
Location: Clatskanie, Or
I'm excited to hea how it works on the test car, then ill be purchasing a tuned 20g ecu and this little dealio from you :)

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:47 am 
In Neutral
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Posts: 10
Location: eugene oregon
Rob,
random question. pin 10 and 9 are 180deg out of phase on the EJ22t ECU and pin 8 and 7 are unused, and on the EJ20g ECU all 4 pins are 90deg out of phase from each other. so if I put pin 9 in to the pin 8 spot and leave pins 9 and 7 unused I should get 2 signals at 180deg out of phase from each other right? or is it not that simple.

Thanks, Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:04 am 
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^+1. My first thought also.
Or if that would mess up the timing, could one not simply run the outputs for cyl's 1&2 and 3&4 to their respective inputs on the wasted spark coil?

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:44 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Puyallup WA
sdersham wrote:
Rob,
random question. pin 10 and 9 are 180deg out of phase on the EJ22t ECU and pin 8 and 7 are unused, and on the EJ20g ECU all 4 pins are 90deg out of phase from each other. so if I put pin 9 in to the pin 8 spot and leave pins 9 and 7 unused I should get 2 signals at 180deg out of phase from each other right? or is it not that simple.

Thanks, Sandy


Good observation but only based on my flawed explanation that I will correct. :)

all inputs into either igniter, 2ch or 4ch fires 90 deg out of phase from the next signal in the firing order. The difference is that on 2ch setup, each individual input fires every 180deg. With 4ch, each individual input fires every 360deg.

Keep in mind when I say 360deg I mean the complete 4cyl cycle. Crank degrees would be 2x as it takes two full rotations of the engine for all 4 cylinders to fire.

I hope that clears it up.

-Rob


Last edited by rob on Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:21 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:44 pm
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Location: Puyallup WA
beatersubi wrote:
^+1. My first thought also.
Or if that would mess up the timing, could one not simply run the outputs for cyl's 1&2 and 3&4 to their respective inputs on the wasted spark coil?



Electrically, no. That would not work.

-Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:47 pm 
In Neutral
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:30 pm
Posts: 10
Location: eugene oregon
rob wrote:
sdersham wrote:
Rob,
random question. pin 10 and 9 are 180deg out of phase on the EJ22t ECU and pin 8 and 7 are unused, and on the EJ20g ECU all 4 pins are 90deg out of phase from each other. so if I put pin 9 in to the pin 8 spot and leave pins 9 and 7 unused I should get 2 signals at 180deg out of phase from each other right? or is it not that simple.

Thanks, Sandy


Good observation but only based on my flawed explanation that I will correct. :)

all inputs into either igniter, 2ch or 4ch fires 90 deg out of phase from the next signal in the firing order. The difference is that on 2ch setup, each individual input fires every 180deg. With 4ch, each individual input fires every 360deg.

Keep in mind when I say 360deg I mean the complete 4cyl cycle. Crank degrees would be 2x as it takes two full rotations of the engine for all 4 cylinders to fire.

I hope that clears it up.

-Rob



I see I think. the firing cycle is the same on both setups it just gets the signal there in a different way. I was ( or am still) confused on the firing order and timing.


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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: vancouver/pdx
would it be a viable option to build the ignition converter into a patch harness? that way the other pins can also be switched around for the swap and its completly removeable as 1 piece

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Location: Puyallup WA
It depends if you think an additional $120 for the patch harness is viable :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:32 pm 
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rob wrote:
It depends if you think an additional $120 for the patch harness is viable :)

in my opinion, yes

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:17 pm 
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Location: Puyallup WA
I wouldn't be opposed to providing the service on an individual basis, but wouldn't expect it to be a common request.

-Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:27 am 
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Nice work Rob! This will definitely help a lot of people out in the conversion process.

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:55 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:44 pm
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Location: Puyallup WA
you all should be ashamed of the thread pollution.

Now if there was only an ADMIN who could move all the non relevant posts to a new thread? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:11 pm 
Site Admin
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rob wrote:
Now if there was only an ADMIN who could move all the non relevant posts to a new thread? :D


You're making me do work...sheesh :)

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46301

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1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:24 am 
First Gear
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:28 am
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Location: Clatskanie, Or
Soooo its been a while, any updates? :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Rob's 4to2 Igntion Converter
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:09 am 
First Gear
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:31 pm
Posts: 106
i know i am excited about this, i just read up on robs ej20g thread, i was searching all over for a cheap tuning solution, and found his threads and was so relieved... but he hasnt posted in a month, im sure he's just a busy guy with a life and a job haha. although that would be unfortunate if he pulled a revtronix on us all haha. BSOD would have to write a "legacy of Rob" thread...


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