Why I like the manual over the 4EAT

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:21 am

lol, when you took driver's ed, wheels were a novelty

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:22 am

I only use 3 o' clock with my left hand. KnowhatI'msayin'? W3rd.

Steve

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:24 am

That sounds incredibly uncomfortable. Unless that was some kind of sexual innuendo. In which case I ddin't get it.

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:52 am

gangsta lean

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:59 am

LaureltheQueen wrote:gangsta lean

Gotta Keep it Gangsta.

The front diff in the 04 STi is a clutch type? Wtf? Why?

Who makes the front diff for the 05? Is it still a Tractech unit?

Also, what is the love for the clutch center diff all about? I don't think I fully understand. Is it just because the car can constantly transfer power from front to rear depending on traction availability?

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:34 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:
Also, what is the love for the clutch center diff all about? I don't think I fully understand. Is it just because the car can constantly transfer power from front to rear depending on traction availability?

The electronically controlled clutch center diffs react instantaneously once a speed difference is sensed. The viscous coupling does not.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:49 pm

But clutch type center diffs have a hard time putting down lots of power, don't they?

The greater the speed difference between the front and rear, the less resistance the clutches have. The less the speed difference, the more resistance the clutches have.

That's what Ciper said.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:27 am

I'm not sure exactly what ciper said, or which setup he was referring to, but I know in the new VTD 4EAT, it has a center diff, which is essentially an open diff, that distributes power 45/55. It then uses an electronic clutch pack to lock the outer and inner gears together to give 50/50 split.

I'm not really sure how the STi setup works, but it's probably similar to the setup I mentioned above.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:31 am

I think he was talking about the older clutch style setups, like the 4eat's in our cars.

Allwheeldrive · Post by **Allwheeldrive** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:47 pm

I'm no expert but you don't find a lot of manual racing machines at the track. Of course, most high hp autos only have one or two gears. Auto LSD seems to me to be prefferable to 5mt shifting unless you're talking about serviceability.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:54 pm

Allwheeldrive wrote:I'm no expert but you don't find a lot of manual racing machines at the track. Of course, most high hp autos only have one or two gears. Auto LSD seems to me to be prefferable to 5mt shifting unless you're talking about serviceability.

You're just talking about drag, right?

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:55 pm

Allwheeldrive wrote:I'm no expert but you don't find a lot of manual racing machines at the track. Of course, most high hp autos only have one or two gears. Auto LSD seems to me to be prefferable to 5mt shifting unless you're talking about serviceability.

You're just talking about drag, right?

auto lsd = poorly controlled and understeery imho.

Allwheeldrive · Post by **Allwheeldrive** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:35 pm

Yes, I am talking primarily about drag racing but also stock cars, monster trucks and street cars. Maybe the 4eat isn't the greatest but some auto trannies weigh less and have lower rotating mass. You think auto LSD is understeery, maybe so I guess?

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:01 am

You see more manual transmissions in motorsports than full automatics. I still consider a sequential box, a manual transmission, since there is no automatic override.

And, for once, I agree with Scott. Auto lsd = understeer monstAr. Nothing arcs like the 5MT Legacy. Balanced and predictable.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:05 am

BAC5.2 wrote: Nothing arcs like the 5MT Legacy. Balanced and predictable.

And understeery.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:20 am

I should clarify. Nothing arcs in the snow like the 5MT AWD Legacy.

My car is probably significantly different in the handling department than many other Legacy here (except Josh's). I can predictably rotate the car in any number of ways, with little trouble of understeer.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:49 am

Yeah....if you setup the suspension correctly, and have a little bit of power behind things, rotating is not a problem.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:25 am

Legacy777 wrote:Yeah....if you setup the suspension correctly, and have a little bit of power behind things, rotating is not a problem.

It's impossible with mt legacy awd.

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:28 pm

I like the launch of the 5mt

Nomake Wan · Post by **Nomake Wan** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:12 pm

scottzg wrote:
Legacy777 wrote:Yeah....if you setup the suspension correctly, and have a little bit of power behind things, rotating is not a problem.
It's impossible with mt legacy awd.

But Josh has a M/T AWD Legacy, and he's the one who said that. o.o;

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:23 am

scottzg wrote:
Legacy777 wrote:Yeah....if you setup the suspension correctly, and have a little bit of power behind things, rotating is not a problem.
It's impossible with mt legacy awd.

Nothing's impossible.....and I have a mt legacy awd....

I'm not saying I can do a rear wheel burn out and slide sideways....but I've goosed it going around a sharp corner and had the rear end come loose. I really don't have enough power to play as much as some of you want.....so I can't really say I can do it all the time and on command.

I suppose if I made my rear agx's all the way hard, and the fronts all the way soft.......I might.....but I think that's stupid....

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:47 am

I have a mt legacy awd, and can get the back end to step out on-power, in the dry. I'm sure it will be even easier when my suspension is done, and when the LSD is in.

I can't do rear wheel burnouts, but I can bark them off the line when I get into it, and if I'm in the powerband, I can kick it out, pretty much at will.

Even "slow" Legacy's can do it. You, yourself, posted a thread about lift-throttle oversteer. Lift throttle mid-corner and the rear will come around.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:52 am

I also happen to have a mt awd.

The only time you can get on-throttle oversteer is when the turn is tight enough that the front wheels are completely tipped on their sides. "Parking lot oversteer," Sub 15 mph. I'm pretty sure that big rims and lo-pro tires exacerbate this phenomenon.

with half the power routed to the front, there is no way the rear wheels will lose traction first, without intentionally handicapping the fronts. Since a LSD increases rear wheel traction it will increase on-throttle understeer.

You're new suspension is for a gc, right bac? That will lend itself to understeer as well.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:24 pm

The thing that can be scary is the way the rear end will sometimes "snap" out. If you load the suspension real hard in a long tight corner I've found that sometimes the rear end doesn't simply break loose but will actually snap out violently.

I've never really had that hard a time getting oversteer. If you really want it, you can get it.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:09 pm

Scott - It's all about weight transfer, power just helps.

Think about it. Blast towards a turn, on boost, WOT. Snap the throttle shut, weight dramatically transfers forward, turn in, and the rear will float out. Stay off, wait for the "float" feeling, then hammer the gas to pull out. That's lift-throttle oversteer.

Power-on oversteer is just a matter of good suspension and weight transfer.

My coilovers are for a GC, but the spring rates are matched front to rear. The GC strut length is the same as the facelift BC, with the same spring perch heights and everything. And just like the Legacy, the spring rates are matched. They will be fine.

I've actually done this, as have others, so I don't think your right, thinking that it's impossible.

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Why I like the manual over the 4EAT