I'm staying Boringly Aspirated, for now

Post by **DLC** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:02 am

I'm taking the car in on Friday to have a wreck pulled 2000 Legacy EJ25 SOHC swapped into the car. It has just over 40k miles, a new timing belt, and it's complete. The price was unbeatable.

While the engine is out, I'm going to pick up some Cobb Street Performer cams, a Cobb lightweight flywheel and a Pro Street clutch. Finally, i'll add one of the new lightweight Power Pulley kits, though i'm not sure if it'll be blue or gold.

The car should be much happier and more responsive with these mods. I've got to get a better flowing cat to finish up the exhaust for the time being. It's hard to estimate HP at that point, but i'd put it close to Matt's 150whp mark, which would be awesome.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:57 am

yellow on white makes me queasy. But coolio! Sounds like you're in for some fun

Post by **DLC** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:02 am

I wanted to highlight the links, so people who might not be familiar with the parts would know what i'm talking about

Should be a good time.

eastbaysubaru · Post by **eastbaysubaru** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:20 am

Definitely blue Dave. Gold is ghetto :p

-Brian

Post by **DLC** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:36 am

A bit of an update on the project is due.

Donor engine was a bust. 2+ years spend outside makes for very rusty cylinder walls and rings. Oh well, i didn't have to pay for it.

So i'm having the heads checked to see if they're actually to blame. If so, i'll probably be getting some through Matt Monson or possibly from the otherwise useless engine mentioned earlier. If the heads are fine, the block is going to be to blame, and i want nothing to do with it.

Enter Crawford. Their S2 build is meant for a turbo application, but some higher compression ratio pistons can easily be put in. They have a set of what we've calculated at 11.7:1 CR pots on hand, i just need to find out what's up with my heads.

After a nice discussion with Matt tonight (thanks

), and repeated searches of the awesome Normally Aspirated forum on NASIOC, i'm pretty confident that the stock ECU will keep me from destroying all of this. Granted, from what i understand, detonation isn't quite as catastrophic on a non-turbo engine as it can be with boost, but they break parts either way.

It's gonna be expensive, but i'll also be able to tell people i have an STI engine in my Legacy

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:00 am

R4; 2.8L closed deck, replaceable wet liners, forged everything ...

Steve

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:01 am

So, if the heads are to blame, will you still be sticking in the cams, flywheel and clutch?

I'm sure you know to get the heads checked by a shop for warpage.

I can't understand the appeal of n/a-ifying a turbo engine, or putting a high strung 4 in a midsize sedan, but it sounds like a sweet engine any way you look at it.

Post by **DLC** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:12 am

I'm spending a bit of money, but geez...

Any way it goes, i'm going to be doing cams, flywheel and clutch.

It's not really that i'm dumbing down a turbo motor, i'm just changing pistons. The rods may be a bit on the beefy side, but there's nothing wrong with having an overbuilt block...

I don't think it'll be very high strung. Raising the compression is a trick that pretty much every engine builder in the 60s and 70s used to get more out of their engines, whether they were in the pony car version, or the wagon. The redline isn't going anywhere higher than 7000, and i want it to run well on pump gas.

Should definitely be fun, if that's what comes out of it.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:57 pm

Scottzg,
The appeal of putting an Ej257 block into an NA powered car is pretty simple. To rebuild an EJ251 runs in the neighborhood of $1500-2000. And even then, there is still a small risk of cylinders walking at high revs. For guys going to 7000rpms, it is a non issue, but for those of us who are going to be taking our engines to 7500-8000 rpm, it may matter. Now, you can get an Ej257 STi block brand freaking new for $1500-1750. It is semi-closed deck from the factory and bullet proof. This is the reasoning. Either engine will require the extra expenditure for some forged pistons for high CR use, so why not use the Ej257 block.

And lastly, I would hardly call my car boringly aspirated. I eat stock and stage I WRX's for lunch on a daily basis. And it is hardly high strung. Right now it revs to 6400 rpms and isn't some peaky little tweaky little Honda B16. I am making 200lbs of torque by 3600rpms and pull that straight across to redline...

Post by **DLC** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:32 pm

I only call it Boringly Aspirated because there aren't all of the cool tubines and valves and widgets that turbo motors have

I talked to my mechanic, Charlie, and he'd had the heads to the shop for a check. It turns out that the Phase II SOHC uses much thinner head gaskets than the Phase I. The PII also has a much smaller tolerance for head warpage, as a result of these thinner gaskets. If the warpage exceeds the gasket thickness, you get leakage, and overheating.

Mind you, the best service department in the state had my car for a week and went through a radiator and two sets of gaskets. I don't believe they used the proper procedure to check the state of the heads, or else this would have shown up.

Tolerance is 2 thousands of an inch. HG thickness is 2-3 thousands. My heads were both warped by 8 thousands. Inexcusable on the part of the dealer. They will be paying for the labor and parts, this i can guarantee.

I should be able to get the car back on Friday at some time. I'm pleased that the problem has been found, and that it's not going to cost me anywhere near what i was fearing it would

Post by **DLC** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:32 pm

It's looking like Monday now. Charlie wants to make sure everything is good to go and that i don't drive off with an oil leak or something silly.

The rear main seal did need replacement, a good thing he noticed it with the engine out. I also had him install the TranQuil throwout bearing and sleeve, which should eliminate any clutch shudder from every happening.

I really, really want the car back, but it's better to be safe than sorry. It's gonna be in the 50s this weekend, riding the motorcycle will make me feel better

Post by **Legacy777** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:54 am

Dave,

What's this TranQuil throwout bearing & sleeve?

Do they have one for turbo transmissions, or just n/a transmissions.

Post by **DLC** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:27 am

I really wish i was more familiar with the subtle dynamics of the clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing so i could describe what it does. I have some pictures of it that i plan to put up when everything gets done. I'm not sure about application specifics, but i'd imagine it's made for either tranny type.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:36 am

Yeah, let me know when you get pics and the like.

Do you have a link to the people who make it?

Post by **DLC** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:21 am

Here are some pics of the TranQuil kit. I haven't been able to find a website or any mention of it elsewhere. Apparently it's from some place in Colorado.

The premise behind it is that the TOB slides upon the trans input shaft, but the surface area the two share is pretty small. The stainless steel sleeve goes over the shaft, cinching down with a set of hex bolts, and a different TOB is used. The TOB now rides on the stainless sleeve instead of the input shaft, which apparently causes a lot of the shuddering problems. Charlie mentioned that he'd done a clutch job on a car earlier last week and the input shaft was worn badly in many places. This kit should pretty much eliminate that. Unfortunately, it's for the non-turbo clutch type only, as far as i can tell.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:47 am

I was going to say.....PDM developed these kits, and at the time they had not developed anything for the turbo cars.

Since PDM pretty much closed up shop, I was unaware if they were still manufacturing/selling things.

It's definitely a good kit.

Al had told me that SOA was looking at the kit....

Post by **DLC** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:18 am

Good to know, i did make the PDM acronym and the potential connection, but wasn't sure. Someone is still making them and they're gaining popularity in shops.

THAWA · Post by **THAWA** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:09 am

where did you buy this and how much?

Post by **DLC** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:12 am

I got it from Charlie, the place who did the work. He recommended it highly and i was sold on it. I believe i paid around $140 for it, but felt it's worth the extra money.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:21 am

Dave - It would be pretty exciting if you could get 165whp out of the car, N/A. That'd be a feat to the max.

Still keep the potential of boost in mind. It's easy to do, you won't have to change the pistons, and you won't have to pull the engine again if you want to do it.

Boost is fun

professor · Post by **professor** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:30 pm

I'd say $140 is a bargain if it make sa clutch work the way a clutch is supposed to work

it looks like a quality piece for that money

Post by **DLC** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:54 pm

I am keeping boost in mind, i still miss the grunt it afforded me up hills. It's just a matter of when.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:43 pm

Looks like they now have turbo applications for the tranquil kit.

http://www.pdm-csrk.com/

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:41 pm

Just some info to add to this. This is the one and the same PDM. They are now a one man show, and this is the only product Joel is offering and focusing on. Al has left the country and Torque Chips are no longer being made. As for the sleeve, not only is he developing it for the Subaru's, but he's doing it for other import cars as well...

And if someone is interested in a PDM quality turbo kit, they can still be had. They are Built To Order with prepayment required. Contact me if you want more information.

Lastly, we'll see tonight how hard 165whp is to hit. I am getting on the dyno with the RS with my new bottom end and higher compression ratio along with a catless track pipe. I will post a thread in Misc manana...

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:34 pm

i thought the people behind pdm were serving time for fraud or something like that

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

I'm staying Boringly Aspirated, for now

I'm staying Boringly Aspirated, for now