Vacuum line between wastegate control and turbo

[MPtyza]

Well, I finally got to take my car in for inspection, but there is a problem that the car has had since my uncle dropped the replacement engine in. Once it reaches about 4200rpm, the revs drop to about 2000 or so. I found the post below and it sounds exactly like what is going on. The vacuum line between the wastegate control and turbo, would anyone happen to have a picture of where this would be?

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=20155

I'm still kinda new to the whole turbo arrangement, and where certain turbo specific parts are located. Thanks in advance for your help. Hope I haven't already damaged something

[vrg3]

Using this vacuum diagram you should be able to figure things out:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/vacuum/

[MPtyza]

Thanks, that may come in handy.

Now on your diagram, would it be "K", right? or would it be "L"&"M"'?

[vrg3]

All three are essential for boost control, so check 'em all.

[MPtyza]

Yeah, not a bad idea. thanks

[vrg3]

No problem.

[MPtyza]

Well, got the call that said he failed emissions, but inspection went well apparently, just need a license plate light on the one side.

Going to pick him up in about an hour, so after I get him home I'll check the vacuum lines, and hopefully he'll run right and ease my mind a little.

[MPtyza]

Well, it was the "L" and "M" union that came undone, because there was no clamp on the one hose. Line "J" on the diagram was also disconnected, but it runs fine though. The nipple on the intake resonator broke off in the end of the hose so I can't exactly reconnect it like I'd like to.

I'm actually kind of disappointed in a way. I thought the turbo was normally that loud. I had gotten used to it in the past couple days, that I thought it was normal, and I thought I had broken something after I reconnected the lines. I could feel that it was still working properly though

Thanks again vrg3 for the diagram. I just hope that after an oil change tomorrow morning that it'll pass emmissions this time. If not, I've spent enough to qualify for a waiver till next year.

[vrg3]

Ah, yeah, that union being undone would do it.

I don't think there's a hose clamp on the small side of the union even from the factory. In fact none of the 4mm or smaller hoses have clamps, or even have beads or barbs on their nipples. With such a narrow hose and stock boost pressures it should be fine, but it becomes problematic if you tug on a hose or if you raise boost.

I usually use a ziptie to hold vacuum hoses in place.

I don't understand how your car can be failing emissions. In PA they don't test AWD vehicles under load, right? What part did you fail?

[MPtyza]

I don't know, I'm still gonna pick up a small clamp or something when I go to Walmart tomorrow to get an oil change, cause it's a loose connection. (I'd do it myself but I've got nowhere to do it).

In PA they test emissions at idle and 2500RPM.

CO% Limit is 1.20. At idle I was at 0.65, and at 2500 I was at 1.96.

Hydrocarbons (HC) ppm. Limit is 220. At idle I was at 4422, and at 2500 I was at 112.

If I spend $150 on parts to try to get it to pass emissions and take it back, I can get a waiver until next year. I've already spent $170 in sensors and plugs and wires, so I'll be alright either way when I take it back, probably tomorrow.

The car idled like crap when I first got it. I found out from my uncle that the spark plugs and wires on the engine are from when it was sitting for 5 years. I used to have to crank it for a second or so before it'd catch, and now it starts right up on the second crank. The car feels better overall now than before I did the plugs and wires.

The guy who did my inspection said that it did better when it wasn't idling, and that doing the plugs and wires will probably fix the problem.

[vrg3]

They're testing at idle and 2500 RPM, but still under no load. Your engine should be barely emitting at all, especially if you have catalytic converters.

Four thousand four hundred and twenty-two hydrocarbon parts per million at idle?! Is that a typo?

Seems like you're running rich or somehow getting really incomplete combustion. The tuneup should take care of making sure combustion happens cleanly (if it was done right), but what sensors did you replace? The oxygen sensor would be the prime suspect in my opinion.

Maybe there's a lot of crap in the combustion chambers from when it was misfiring all the time. Have you tried using some Sea Foam to clean it out?

The car was nice and hot before the test, right?

[MPtyza]

Well, my first priority is getting the tests done and new stickers on it so I can use it for getting back and forth to work. Having said that, I'm using the receipts for the knock sensor and air flow sensor as part of my $150 if it doesn't pass. I know I should have done the oxygen sensor, but I simply cannot afford it right now, but it is on the to do list. (Like a lot of things dealing with the car)

I haven't used any Sea Foam on it yet, but I plan on it, maybe on the way to Walmart I'll stop and get some. How exactly would I use it when I do get it?

I dropped the car off at 9am yesterday. I don't know exactly when they did the test, but I got the call around 1:30pm, so I'd assume that they had just gotten done with it. So it probably wasn't hot when they did the test.

[MPtyza]

Also, the plugs were freakin black when I pulled them out. And with a cheap Walmart crap toolset, the driver's side rear plug is a real pain in the ass to get to. And it makes a 20 minute job about 45 minutes when the spark plug socket doesn't want to let go of the plug after you tighten it.

[vrg3]

The knock sensor and airflow meter are less likely to be at fault than the oxygen sensor in this particular case. Can't hurt that you have new ones now though.

Almost any engine will have much worse emissions when it's not hot. And when it's actually cold (coolant temperature below about 190 degrees), it will almost definitely fail the tests because it runs rich in order to keep from stalling. Newer engines are better about this but ours definitely need to be warmed up. In fact, if they tested it without warming it up at all, that could easily explain high HC and CO readings.

The way I'd suggest cleaning the combustion chambers with Sea Foam would be to get a nylon adapter that has male 1/4" pipe threads and a 3/16" hose barb and a few feet of nylon 3/16" hose. Then you remove the PCV valve and thread the nylon adapter in its place. Connect the hose to the adapter, warm the engine up, and run it at a high idle by wedging a quarter or something in the throttle cam. Let the engine suck up about a cup of Sea Foam through the hose, going fast enough to bog the engine but not fast enough to stall it out. As soon as it's all in there, shut the engine off and let it sit for about 5 minutes. Then start it up and drive around gently until it stops smoking.

Oh yeah, crappy spark plug sockets are the worst. They usually don't have the little dents that hold the ball bearing that's in the ratchet or extension, so there's practically nothing holding them to the tool. If you have to use these cheap sockets, you can use electrical tape or something to make sure they stay attached to the extension.

You removed the washer bottle in order to reach the rear driver side plug, right?

[MPtyza]

Yeah, I know they're less likely, but I'm just trying to get my new, non-expired stickers on the car My parents are getting kinda tired of driving me into work for 10pm and picking me up in the morning when I'm done.

After I finally got some premium in the car, I drove it a little hard, to see what it's like and all. I let off around 90 or so, and when I got back down to around 60, I noticed the damn CEL was on. I pulled into a grocery store parking lot, and checked the codes. I actually got the oxygen sensor code. I cleared the codes and it hasn't come back since. Believe me, it is near the top of the to-do list for the car, after getting my stickers. I want it to run like it should. I did kinda have to replace that knock sensor though, the old one was cracked.

Now, I hate to sound like an idiot, but with the PCV valve, could I leave the actual valve in there, but attach a hose to that? And, is SeaFoam available at normal auto parts stores? I didn't have a chance to run in to Autozone this morning like I wanted to.

The idiots at Walmart only put in 4 quarts, and I just checked one of my '91 manuals, and it says 4.8, so I had to run back in and buy an extra quart. I noticed when they first started it to pull it out of their shop, it was ticking real freakin loud, and it continued to do it for about 20 minutes afterward. By the time I got home after scheduling a retest, it ran fine. I noticed that after the oil change, it pulled even harder than after I did the plugs and wires.

When I did the plugs, I didn't remove anything really. There was those two hoses that really restricted access to that plug, and I pulled one off for about 20 minutes or so. Just before I finally got that damn socket to release, I was thinking of removing the bottle. I was trying to keep things somewhat simple like that, if it makes any sense.

Yeah, I do plan on getting everything with the car working properly in time. I'm not just gonna get the waiver (if I have to), and say "oh, it's fine now." or anything like that. I'm kinda rescuing the car from the damn ricer 20 year old kid who owned it before me. (granted I am 20 also, but I actually respect the car, and I know what it is)

[vrg3]

Our cars are very tolerant of missing oxygen sensors. If you unplug the sensor, you only really get CELs on occasion when cruising on the highway.

If you don't mind your sensor only working when it's been warmed up, and don't mind some very simple wiring, you can get a 1-wire sensor from oxygensensors.com for like 20 or 25 bucks.

You can feed Sea Foam in through the PCV valve itself if you want, or you can use the brake booster hose, or whatever other vacuum fitting. I just feel like my technique is neat and easy and gets all cylinders. I usually put a new PCV valve in afterwards.

Advance Auto Parts and NAPA carry Sea Foam.

Yeah removing the washer bottle might seem like extra work but it's actually pretty easy if you plan beforehand and use up all your fluid. I also replaced the two bolts with stainless steel ones and use antiseize compound on them; that way there's a lot less rust to deal with.

[MPtyza]

Well, today I bought a bottle of Sea Foam, and a PCV valve. I didn't have a wrench big enough to do the PCV valve, so I used the brake booster hose. Just as it got through half the bottle, I see smoke starting to come out the turbo's chimney, and from the front of the engine. I shut it off, poured a little in the gas tank, and a couple minutes later I took it out for a bit. It stopped smoking out the exhaust after a couple minutes.

Now, is that smoke coming out the turbo chimney and front of the engine normal when doing this, or is something wrong? The car drives fine.

Anyway, the car goes back for the free retest in two days and either way I get my stickers so it's legal to drive

[vrg3]

If smoke was coming out around the chimney that probably means there's a leak somewhere in the exhaust around there. My old turbo had a leak around the wastegate flapper rod, and I found it when I saw smoke coming out there during a Sea Foaming.

[MPtyza]

Well, I took the car back for the emissions retest, and it passed this time. The results were a lot better.

For the CO%, limit is 1.20, at idle it was 0.04 (old was 0.65), and at 2500 RPM it was 0.63 (old was 1.96).

HC ppm, limit is 220, at idle it was 115 (old was 4422!), and at 2500 RPM it was 42 (old was 112).

Like I said before, I still plan on replacing the oxygen sensor. Think that'll drop the numbers even more?

Anyway, thanks for all the help. The car runs a lot better now, and I can now enjoy the damn thing