Slipping clutch - Need replacement recommendations!

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:23 am

Hey everyone,

Well, on the way home from a nice long drive today, I decide to floor it in 5th on the highway. I'm already in 5th cruising, mind you, and I just stomped it to the floor. Hit 16psi pretty quick but the clutch slipped for a good second before I actually felt it. Crap. So now the clutch has started to slip while the car's been driven for a while; this is how it began last time. The clutch was replaced about a year and a half ago, although I didn't do it so for all I know the guy put in used parts.

Long story short, I'm going to do it myself this time. Well, not myself, at my friend's house with help... anyway. I'm sick of this problem and want a clutch that will hold some good horsepower and last a good while. Unfortunately I'm relatively new to the world of clutch style and material selection. I do know that my GMC has a huge ceramic clutch that can take quite a beating from the 366 it's attached to... do we have ceramic clutches available to us?

Any specific recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I've spent a bit searching around the board and have come up with Exedy as a clutch brand name but really don't know much else... thanks in advance!

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:38 am

Exedy is a good brand, I have the stage 1 clutch on my car. I've burned the shit out of it and there is still quite a bit of material left on it. I've been thinking of upgrading to the ceramic clutch that they make. I've heard it's harder on the drivetrain but doesnt slip. I'm not sure if they make the ceramic clutch for your transmission as i have a slightly different setup. I'd think they would tho or at least one compatible.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:28 pm

Thanks DZX that's a good start - I've seen a few exedy clutch kits online in my search, but they're all listed for the WRX and the STi - no direct Legacy applications yet. ...or is this another area where we just buy WRX parts and they bolt right on? ... any year WRX?

Is the '93 SS 5MT that much different than the '94 SS 5MT? I'd have thought we'd have pretty much the same setup for the clutch area.

(and what'd you have to do to get the Garrett hybrid in there?)

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:50 pm

As I'm understanding it so far, my choices are:

1) Keep the SS flywheel and get a SPEC kevlar clutch (isn't kevlar more prone to overheating and slipping??)

2) Keep the SS flywheel and get an OEM-style replacement from boxer4racing.com

3) Get a WRX flywheel and WRX performance clutch, which can be ceramic or cerametallic (still unclear as to which year WRX this can be done with)

Hmm... help!

Another question that will seriously reveal my new-B-ness to clutchtivity: to what are we referring to when we speak of clutch "pucks"? Are those the fingers that hold the disc in place or are they related to the shape of the pressure plate...?

And let's talk material:

Kevlar = prone to overheating?

Ceramic = Best as far as heat handling capabilities but perhaps a bit rougher on the driveline (space shuttles use ceramic, I like that).

Organic = standard carbon-based clutches?

Cerametallic = A strange ceramic-metal alloy that I know nothing about

What else is there? I'd really like to discuss the pros and cons of all these aspects. Daily drivability is quasi-important, but I'd rather have something that can really hold the power and last...

Also: At the levels of torque and horsepower the Legacy can be modified to produce, should I be looking into single-plate or dual/triple-plate clutch kits? I see they get astronomically more expensive, what are the tangible benefits from multiple friction plates?

greg donovan · Post by **greg donovan** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:05 pm

DZX has put in a different trans than the original SS unit. hence the 4.11 final drive ratio. more than likely it is a unti from a RS or a non turbo AWD legacy/impreza.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:08 pm

Any year WRX flywheel+clutch set should work.

Early on, like in the early 90s, WRXes had the same clutch setup as we do. At some point they changed it so the diameter was a little larger. Naturally, the larger clutch doesn't fit the smaller flywheel. But if they match, then they'll work.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:07 pm

I see, and... I see. Thank you, at least now I understand how to select the proper model.

Is ceramic or cerametallic the most desirable material for longevity, heat, and grippiness? The stock clutches are organic/carbon, correct? Or do I have a kevlar clutch that just starts to slip when it gets hot?

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:59 pm

OK, I've had two seperate people tell me that Specs Kevlar clutch is shit so don't get that.

I have personally found sites that sell Exedy, ACT, Clutch Masters and SPEC clutch's specifically for our cars so that you can keep the stock flywheel. I'm leaning towards an ACT 6-puck myself with heavy duty pressure plate.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:57 pm

The "puck" design basically means you have separate fingers that have clutch material on it vs a round disk.

I think the main advantage is a reduction in weight....but IMO...clutches don't weigh shit in comparison to other components in the drive train. A normal clutch will probably give you better drivability compared to a "puck" type clutch.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:00 am

Legacy777 wrote:The "puck" design basically means you have separate fingers that have clutch material on it vs a round disk.

I think the main advantage is a reduction in weight....but IMO...clutches don't weigh shit in comparison to other components in the drive train. A normal clutch will probably give you better drivability compared to a "puck" type clutch.

Puck clutches reduce surface area contacting the flywheel, which increases the pressure between the clutch disc and the flywheel.

They don't slip very well, but they grab incredibly strong. Good for launch and go, but not for drivability. If 4wheel burnouts are your goal, get a 3 puck a built tranny, and DSS axles.

You can use any year WRX clutch and WRX flywheel. I am using an Exedy Lightweight flywheel and a Stage1 clutch.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:27 pm

Interesting. I appreciate the education.

Where are these sites that carry Exedy clutches for the Legacy? All I've seen so far is WRX parts in my web travels.

How heavy, by the by, is the stock Legacy flywheel? I don't know if I should spring for a lightweight just yet, but if I'm going to end up getting parts for the WRX I might as well get that too.

Is the Legacy 5MT up to handling a ceramic or cerametallic clutch? Or is it this board's consensus that it would fall apart under the added stress of engagement?

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:20 pm

I finally found one page that says they carry the '91-'94 Legacy clutch (so no WRX flywheel is req'd):

http://www.coximport.com/exedy/cerametallic.html

Although, looking at the particulars, it seems as though the WRX clutch is the same size. Is our clutch 230mm in diameter? It says the WRX is too. The STi is 240mm according to this application guide.

Just trying to get my real options in a row here, I may decide to spring for the lightweight flywheel in which case I'll get a WRX clutch - or I may just get the Legacy clutch and keep the flywheel I've got now (even though I haven't gotten a look at it yet, it may need replacing). Need to make sure, either way, that I'm not going to order something that won't work. It would seriously blow to have everything apart and realize the one I ordered doesn't go in there...

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:42 pm

WRX's clutch and flywheel are 3mm larger in diameter.

The stock flywheel is in the realm of 25 to 30 pounds. I can get you an exact weight if you want, since my stock flywheel is in my garage. The Exedy WRX flywheel is 14 pounds. The LW flywheel changes EVERYTHING about the car. It's so much better.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:27 pm

Here are the sites I'm looking at right now. My buddy just got an ACT Organic W/HD pressure plate from this first site. It came quick and he gave them a thumbs up.

http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopdispl ... &Year=1992

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/viewpro ... Kits~.html

-K- · Post by **-K-** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:33 pm

Loved my light flywheel. Loved it.
One is going in my new car soon.

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:27 am

I'd get the ceramic clutch for longevity and grip. Unless your going for 1.7 sec 60' s at the dragstrip it shouldnt harm your transmission.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:21 am

You can pull 1.7 second 60's with a stock clutch...

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:23 am

What was your 60' time.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:57 am

Not 1.7, lol.

A local, who is actually quite famous, ran a 13.09 on a stock clutch and trans with 193whp and 208lb-ft (per TurboXS's dynapack Dyno). Pulling a 1.83 60'

He's running 11.8 @ 121 now on a stock WRX tranny with an ACT 6-puck and a stock pressure plate... on pump gas.

My friend Jay ran a 14.1 in his stock WRX and pulled a 1.80 60'.

NICO · Post by **NICO** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:12 am

keep the stock clutch and flywheel. to tell you guys the truth i only changed my clutch 2 times over 300ks. i have messed up gears, 6 times but never had a problem with clutch slipping.

best bet keep it stock just get the wrx factory one its a little better then our legacy turbo ones.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:34 pm

OK - here's what I've found so far:

For Legacy:
$512.10 419 ft.lbs Cer/Org Sprung SU163
SPEC Clutch Kits - Stage 3 - Sprung (X-Pad Disc)

For WRX (req's flywheel):
$582.25 Exedy Cer/Cop 3-puck sprung 15950 ultrarev.com
$642.56 CM Cer 4-puck sprung FX400 ultrarev.com
Flywheel:
$452.19 Exedy 14.3lb http://www.coximport.com/store/FF01
$242.44 ACT 9.6lb 600170 ProLite ultrarev.com
$227.82 ACT 13.9lb 600175 StreetLite ultrarev.com
$448.88 CM FW-WRX-AL ReplacableFrictionSurface "
$339.42 Fidanza 110001 or 110221 RFS "
$440.84 Unorthodox 11lb 061310400

I'm leaning towards the ACT Streetlite 13.9 lb flywheel and would like a matching ACT clutch, unfortunately I've been having a hell of a time finding ACT's sprung 6-puck ceramic part. Every time I locate an ACT clutch kit, it seems to be the unsprung version. They have a 6-puck sprung clutch pictured in their catalog but I can't find the clutch kit that has it for the life of me.

I might just get the Exedy thick cerametallic sprung 3-puck clutch kit to go along with the ACT flywheel, although I really wanted either a 6-puck or straight disc version.

I don't think I'm going to go through all this just to end up with a stock WRX flywheel and clutch

Anyone know off-hand of any other ceramic or ceramic mixture clutch kits with sprung centers that I am missing? WRX application, of course. And what is the consensus on the 9.5lb ACT ProLite flywheel? Too light....?

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:37 pm

Did you go to the sites I listed? They both have multiple clutches for our cars.

Oh and I've been leaning towards ACT too but in my poll thread the ACT gets no love. Everyone says Exedy or go home.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:42 pm

Yep, horsepowerfreaks.com and ultrarev.com turned out to be the best sources for the majority of the things I found. I only listed the best price I found for any particular item, and where I found it. Ultrarev.com has lower prices on the same items than horsepowerfreaks.com - but both had great information and links.

At the moment, however, I'm stuck for finding anything else. It's not a bad combo, the Exedy stage 2 with an ACT 13.9 lb flywheel for ~$810.00 -- but I just don't like the 3-puck design. That's going to be unnecessarily harsh, and overall there is much less friction material to go around.

Still searching for a 6-puck or round ceramic mixture sprung center clutch kit.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:01 pm

Horsepowerfreaks has that stage 4 sprung 4-puck by Clutch Masters...

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:04 pm

Oh and ACT's flywheels are about half the price of the Exedy. I'd get the ACT streetlite. 13.9 lbs and around $200 bones. Not too shabby.

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A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

Slipping clutch - Need replacement recommendations!

Slipping clutch - Need replacement recommendations!