No boost after 4 months of sitting?

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:50 am

Okay. I've searched NASIOC as much as possible, and can't find anything that might explain my situation.... And my eyes hurt. So....

I'm in the process of buying a 92 turbo sedan, which has sat untouched for about 4 months. We (totech and myself) took it out for a spin the other day, and while the engine ran great, we didn't feel any boost or hear anything from the turbo. We did notice some white smoke coming up from the chimney when we parked it, after we had it out for about 5 minutes.

Any thoughts? I'm hoping its just because it sat for 4 months, but should I pull the intake off and check the turbo inlet? It should spin freely, right? We didn't take a look at any vacuum lines, but the engine appeared so stock that I didn't think there was any reason to. Any harm to just running it for a while, say on the highway, and see if it unsticks itself?

As always, TIA, now I'm off to bed.

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:14 pm

Very Odd, you didnt feel any power increase above 4000 rpm? and no turbo whistle? Seized impeller shaft maybe but i highly doubt it, turbo itself would have to be exposed to the elements for some time. if your getting no boost then possibly the wastgate is seized open. No check engine light? I ask Because with a CEL the ecu will usually not allow boost to build above 0 psi. My car sat in bushes for 2 years before I found it and it didnt have that problem, weird. The turbo could be done though thats why it probobly sat for 4 months, which might give you the perfefct excuse to save up for a TD05

Mark,

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:57 pm

Sorry, I forgot to mention that there was a CEL, but we didn't have the list with us, so we didn't bother to pull the codes. But again, we figured it was because it had been sitting.

But yeah, no boost that either of us could feel, and no whistle either. I asked about the turbo afterwards, and was told that worked fine when the car was last driven. Hrmm...

I'm going to take the car anyways. With the way it runs, I can't pass up the opportunity.

Edit: Added more of a response.

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 2:08 pm

I've been trying to think this over some more (its really hard to think Saturday morning). From what I understand of turbo operation, wouldn't we have heard something fromt the turbo even if the wastegate was stuck open? That makes me think the shaft is seized.

Is it a fairly easy reach into the turbo from the intake side to see if I can spin the impeller?

I hope its not the turbo as a whole, because it would suck having to drive a 8:1 compression Legacy until I could replace the turbo.

FrmRgz2Rchz · Post by **FrmRgz2Rchz** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:35 pm

I have a couple spare turbos on hand

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:28 pm

Wouldn't it be impossible to freeze an impeller shaft? Hear me out for a second here. Both turbines are fixed to the same shaft, the compressor impeller and the exhaust side impeller. If that shaft was siezed that would restrict the exhaust gases from passing through the turbo as well. making the car bog down due to the back pressure, if it even ran at all. I'm not saying that a shaft couldn't sieze, all I'm saying is that if it did the engine probably wouldn't run. Another possibility is that the compressor turbine has come lose and is spinning freely on the shaft allowing the exhaust turbine to spin freely but not create boost, but thats not very likey (reason being I could not get my compressor turbine off when I tried!)

Just my opinion

Mike

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:40 pm

Mike,

What you're saying does make sense... That makes me even more confused then, because neither of us heard or felt the turbo doing anything.

There was no smoke out the exhaust, but some white smoke coming up the chimney. Is that connected at all to the no boost problem? Or another problem all together?

Probably my biggest concern right now is whether I would do any damage to the engine if I ran it the way it is. Any chance of an oil blockage in the turbo wrecking something else?

Hrm... Definitely going to have to spend some time under the hood, once I figure out how to get it to my place.

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:59 pm

White smoke from the turbo usually means its been driven hard. I get it from my car and my friends eclipse does it too, not to mention the WRX guys - after a hard run that is. But from an older worn turbo it could mean, the bushings for the shaft are worn and oil is cooking in to the exhaust stream. Like stated I'd remove the intake side of the tract that connects to the turbo and give the compressor a spin.

Mark,

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:29 pm

Can I get to the compressor to spin it by just taking the black intake hose off? Or do I have to remove that 90 degree elbow?

That's the first thing I'm going to do when I get out to the car next week!

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:53 pm

When my car was stock, there was absolutely no noise from the turbo, and no noticeable kick either... maybe it actually is working...

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:18 pm

Wow... You're the first person to suggest that!

For my sake, everyone hope thats true!

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:25 pm

im running a stock 92 turbo and it has lots of oomph!very noticable power increase when turbo spools up,throws you back in your seat.could hear turbo whistle too when stock.I can hear it even better now that i removed the snorkus from the air box though.I really think you would notice the turbo working if it was.maybe something is wrong with the pressure exchange solenoid.is the smoke coming from around the chimney or out the top?

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:31 am

The smoke was coming up through the chimney. Yeah, we both noticed it felt decidely non turbocharged... No increase in acceleration anywhere in the power band.

I'm gonna pull the codes and check the compressor when I go down this week to change the brakes and bring it home.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 7:42 pm

check the codes, the ecu may be limiting boost because of a problem. Or possibly the wastegate solenoid is broken or stuck open.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:05 pm

If there's no boost at all it can't be an ECU problem... all the ECU can do is limit boost to the wastegate setting, so you'd still get around 6psi.

I have heard of old turbo Volvo owners continuing to drive their cars after the turbo blew... Supposedly it just ran like a low-compression N/A engine would. I don't know exactly in what manner the turbos "blew" but it's possible this car's situation is similar.

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:23 pm

I'll be going out to look at / work on the car more either Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll be able to tell everyone for sure then what the CEL was for, as well as whether the compressor spins or not...

Fingers crossed its just something stuck!

itkindaworks · Post by **itkindaworks** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:25 am

I am having the same problem. I can only get into 1 inHG of vacuum(when boost should be kicking in). The turbo doesnt make any whistling either. I have checked the wastegate and it doesn't appear to be stuck. I only have one check engine light(starter switch, which i have had for months now) and I have tried resetting the ecu.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Michael

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:49 pm

I seriously doubt its the wastegate "stuck open" (which can be easily checked for by physically moving the actuator arm back and forth with your hand). Of course, if it is extremely easy to move and it rests in the position furthest towards the back of the car, then your wastegate spring is indeed crap and needs 'areplacin.

All the ECU could do to limit boost is to keep the wastegate solenoid closed, thereby letting the turbo constantly push its full pressure on the wastegate actuator. This results in 5-6 psi of limited boost and can still be heard, even in a stock system. It cannot be felt nearly as much, however, as the properly-operating stock boost level of ~9 psi, which does kick in and throw you back in the seat a little to let you know its there.

And it is my opinion that unless you have insanely small hands, you will not be able to get them into that 90 degree turbo inlet to give it a spin. You'll most likely have to take the turbo out of the car anyway, at which point you can spin by hand from the turbine side anyway. Then you can be ready to rebuild that sumbitch if its not destroyed or otherwise seriously ill. Perhaps even find a VJ17 (t-bird) turbo to hybrid with in the process.

So what was the CEL for? That will probably tell us something useful here...

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:42 pm

you can pull the 90 degree inlet off of the turbo to get easy access to the impeller.

itkindaworks · Post by **itkindaworks** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:35 pm

I have actually tried pulling the 90 degree inlet off before and it wouldnt budge. I have also found it to be extremely brittle.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:33 pm

my inlet came right off... wasnt brittle.

two bolts.

Not sure if you can get to both of them while its still in the car though... may be easier to pull and better inspect the turbo anyway.

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:38 am

i pulled them both off while they were in the car, just used a pry bar to apply a little pressure to make room to fit the socket on to loosen then took it the rest of the way by hand. A crescent wrench would have been a lot easier but i didn't have one handy at the time. They are 12mm.

snowjob · Post by **snowjob** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:44 pm

If in doubt buy my vf-10 which I know has a smooth feel to the turbine

LaureltheQueen · Post by **LaureltheQueen** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:02 pm

my car doesn't seem to have any lag at all either. It just seems to stop getting faster at about 4000 rpms

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:54 pm

yep, thats a good stock turbo

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No boost after 4 months of sitting?

No boost after 4 months of sitting?