Should I hone the cylinders?

[Legacy777]

I will first off say that Autozone is one if not the only local places that has a 14mm hex driver. It was 8 bucks for three hex sockets. Also, I made one of those tools to remove the piston pins. It worked....however it's definitely not as refined as doug's.

Well.....I took the pistons out this evening...and I can't say I'm super thrilled. There is some scuffing on the tops and bottoms of the cylinders. It hasn't scored anything from the looks. It's smooth....it just looks like it's worn away the cross-hatching Pretty much every cylinder has a little bit of this. Number 3 was the least scuffed.....which I thought was interesting.

Anyway, I would assume I need to hone the liners to to put remove the scuffing and put the cross-hatching back in.....correct? I would assume I would need to split the block to do this??

I talked with Emily at CCR, and she said if I did split the block I would need new to put new bearings in. Which I suppose is fine. I just want this done right.

I'll probably pick up some new stock ej22t pistons from crawford. Doug mentioned they've got them lieing around, since they pull the pistons for build ups.

Anyway, here's pics. Let me know what you think.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... s/ej22t/3/

BTW....I actually got good pics of the oil squirters

[Legacy777]

anyone?

[evolutionmovement]

If you could somehow remove the rods without splitting the case, I think you'd be okay, but #1 I suspect is impossible to remove that way. I'd definitely clean it up while you can. Just curious, what's the mileage and do you know if they used regular oil?

Steve

[Legacy777]

Nope, can't remove the rods without splitting the block.

Is honing the cylinders something I can do myself with a drill, or do I need to bring it to a machine shop?

Mileage was 126k miles. Don't know about the oil.

[evolutionmovement]

If it's just a minor clean up you can get one of those cylinder honing deals which look like abrasive balls on wires that radiate from a center wire and go in a drill. I haven't done this myself, but I've seen it done. I'll ask my boss more about the specifics of speed, honing pattern, etc. if you like.

Steve

[Legacy777]

Yeah, I'd say it's just minor clean up. Did you take a look at the pictures?

Cool, if you don't mind asking your boss, that'd be great.

Thanks Steve

[douglas vincent]

Those interiors look pretty good all in all, except for the lines in #4. I took 600 gret sandpaper and WD-40 and lightly sanded the cylinders to rid them of buildup and then cleaned them up really well with cotton rags.

Mine looked like that as well, except for the lines you have. I now have a little of that myself in #2 but I left it.

It was #2 and #4 that were damaged in mine.

Definately replace those pistons.

[entirelyturbo]

The honing tool that Steve mentioned, I believe is called a bottle-brush hone. I've only seen it done once, and it doesn't look hard, but there's probably a rhythm and drill speed you need to use for best results. You're supposed to have cross-hatching that forms a bunch of 60° angles or thereabouts I believe.

[Legacy777]

I'm going to talk to some engine rebuilders tomorrow, and get their opinion on the honing, as to whether it's something I can do myself or need a machine shop to do.

Yeah, I'm planning to replace the pistons. They're pretty nasty, but yeah I agree, the internals really don't look too awful bad considering. I'm not sure why #4 was the worst. It just seems a little strange to have one particular cylinder with more wear.

[evolutionmovement]

Sorry I didn't look at the pics before, but I'm lazy. Those aren't bad, but they look like my N/A did with 246k. I think what Douglas suggested would be sufficient, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to use the honing brush.

Mike - there is a pattern to it and I'm pretty sure 60 deg is correct. I've seen my boss do a cylinder in a couple minutes. I'll find out what the speed and everything is and it may vary according to wear also. You have to cut the brush to the right size depth-wise. Wire cutters 'll do.

Steve

[TDGKORN]

I have used the honing tools with the three stones and a variable speed drill. Real easy to do, but remove your piston squirters or you'll hit them with the stones. I havn't used the ball style ones because there is no adjustment for tension, but the stone style ones are adjustable.

troy

[professor]

I'd haul it into a good motor shop and get an opinion. I think when the cross-hatching is worn through with scuffs, you are asking for it to try to do it yourself. You could have substantial eccentricity that you can't even judge by eyeing it up.

I'm a pretty conservative mechanic when it comes to this stuff as I hate to do things twice. And 126k is not a whole lot for these motors but it would really suck to spin a rod bearing 40k down the road, or start using oil.

If you are going to push a lot of power even more of a reason to do it right.

[Legacy777]

I'm really torn what to do now. I talked with emily @ CCR, and I told her what's going on, and she said for what I'm doing, not to bother rehoning. I sent her pictures to show to rick to see what he thinks.

She mentioned to me that getting the bearings and other internals might be hard. So that is another consideration.

HOWEVER.....professor I'm sort of with you.....I've got everything apart, and if I can get the parts, I might as well just do it.

It's only money right....

[douglas vincent]

I am pretty sure the internals are the same as the NA, except for the pistons of course.

[Legacy777]

I'm going to split the block, replace the crank & rod bearings, and have the cylinders rehoned.

I believe I've got a line on everything I need. I'm just hesitant to order pistons before have it honed. It shouldn't change the bore....but I just want to make sure.

[entirelyturbo]

I presume it would be fairly hard to get oversized rings

I don't think you'll change the bore enough to matter, as long as you don't hone it out too much...

[douglas vincent]

Oversize rings available here

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList ... %20Premium

[free5ty1e]

I'm not sure why #4 was the worst. It just seems a little strange to have one particular cylinder with more wear.

Isn't cylinder #4 last in line for fuel? Perhaps it was regularly starved.

I've got my EGT probe on #4's exhaust outlet, just for this reason.


Douglas - I thought there was a great deal of difference between the NA and turbo 2.2 blocks, other than just the pistons. Aren't all the walls thicker, more clearance between combustion chamber and coolant passages and all that wonderful Subaru overengineering? I thought I read all that in the EJ22t overhaul manual, could have sworn I got it from this site but for the life of me I can't find a link. Oh well. Good thing it's not for the life of me.

[entirelyturbo]

I thought number #3 was the one that ran lean...

[Legacy777]

#4 is one of the first on the fuel rail. #3 is the last. Too much fuel can also not be good either.

There are differences between the turbo and n/a motors, more then just the blocks

[douglas vincent]

I meant rods, crank, bearings and pistons rings. Not the actual block itself, or the pistons. The turbo of course has a few extra lines and sensors as well. But I may be wrong.

often parts have different part numbers but are the same thing.

[93forestpearl]

Mine's got that scuffing on both cylinders of one block halve, but its more pronounced. Its also only on one side. weird? I hope that honing will take care of it. I can feel them with my fingernail. I need to bring it into Archer racing and have them look at it. They have a guy that does all their subaru work and owns an STi himself. I trust they know a thing or two when they build $250-300k vipers on a routine basis. I sat down with thier suspension guru for about an hour and a half for the formula car we're building. There's alot that goes into building your own race car. I've got lots of reading to do. anyways...

My main bearings look brand new but the rod bearings have some scuffing on them. I've been eyeing the ones Cobb makes for our engine for $60.

I'm waiting until I can do pstons and rods which will be in the fall. Eagle and Scat make some nice rods for $300-350 pending on where you look. When I put this beotch back together, all I want to worry about is how much air and fuel I can put through it safley

I'm trying to get my school to buy a mandrel bender. Its rediculus that we have all these welders and other casting and metal working crap. Their looking at a high speed cameras, as in 200k frames per sec, but are in the order of 100 large. Although I'll say it was probably one of the sweetest things I've ever seen when the rep brought one in last week.

Anyways, thats my bit. peace

[Legacy777]

You can't even feel the scuffing with a finger nail on my block. So it should be able to be honed out.