Smoke & loss of power steering after popped clutch stall
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Smoke & loss of power steering after popped clutch stall
Ok, This morning I stalled out my (stick shift '93) wagon by getting out when it was in gear... i have the excuse that it was an "emergency".
Well, upon restart, I got smoke under the hood and appeared to have a loss of power steering. I parked it and took another car today. I am wondering if anyone has an idea what's happened.
I was getting minor and brief belt screech on ignition before this incident. I also had the water pump and all belts replaced 2 weeks ago (have been suspicious that the screech was related to this repair).
Perhaps unrelated... when parked downhill, I have a hard time starting up and then blowout of black smoke... which I guess indicates some leak into the fuel line.
Help?
Well, upon restart, I got smoke under the hood and appeared to have a loss of power steering. I parked it and took another car today. I am wondering if anyone has an idea what's happened.
I was getting minor and brief belt screech on ignition before this incident. I also had the water pump and all belts replaced 2 weeks ago (have been suspicious that the screech was related to this repair).
Perhaps unrelated... when parked downhill, I have a hard time starting up and then blowout of black smoke... which I guess indicates some leak into the fuel line.
Help?
http://www.circlestickers.com
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- Vikash
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What do you mean by "getting out when it was in gear?"
Where was the smoke coming from? Maybe your power steering pump is bad. It could cause belt screech, it could cause a lack of steering assist, and it could drip ATF onto the exhaust and cause smoke.
Though if the screech just started when the belts were replaced, it probably means the belt just wasn't tightened properly.
Where was the smoke coming from? Maybe your power steering pump is bad. It could cause belt screech, it could cause a lack of steering assist, and it could drip ATF onto the exhaust and cause smoke.
Though if the screech just started when the belts were replaced, it probably means the belt just wasn't tightened properly.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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- Vikash
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Oh. That shouldn't have really hurt anything.
The middle of the hood? Do you mean from the middle of the engine? Or did you not raise the hood to look?
Your alternator/steering belt is probably loose enough that it wasn't even driving the power steering pump.
The middle of the hood? Do you mean from the middle of the engine? Or did you not raise the hood to look?
Your alternator/steering belt is probably loose enough that it wasn't even driving the power steering pump.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
The smoke was from just above the grille... in the front of the car, middle of the hood. Sorry.
I did not have a chance to raise the hood as I was late for work. I'll check it out tonight though.
Think the PS pump is bad and dropping ATF? I guess the continual squeak could be explained by the belt that got looser or got some crap on it. It sure was a brief sqeak before this incident though, almost just a chirp.
I'm leery of starting the car without narrowing down a cause for the smoke.
(This whole thing is putting a real damper on the factory fresh '05 WRX wheels/tires I got for it... cheap!)
I did not have a chance to raise the hood as I was late for work. I'll check it out tonight though.
Think the PS pump is bad and dropping ATF? I guess the continual squeak could be explained by the belt that got looser or got some crap on it. It sure was a brief sqeak before this incident though, almost just a chirp.
I'm leery of starting the car without narrowing down a cause for the smoke.
(This whole thing is putting a real damper on the factory fresh '05 WRX wheels/tires I got for it... cheap!)
http://www.circlestickers.com
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- Vikash
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We can't begin to make a diagnosis until you pop the hood and take a look... With the hood closed, smoke can move around a lot, and right around the grille is just a natural place for it to escape.
It's possible that the pump is leaking, but it could easily be something else.
Sometimes belts that are loose get worse and worse as they slip.
I understand your hesitation to start the engine again, but it's probably not that big a deal. This evening, prop the hood open, check the motor oil level, check the power steering fluid level, and check the transmission fluid level. Then check belt tension and also check that the belts are clean (not oily) and in good condition.
Correct any problems you might find, and then go ahead and start it up (with a fire extinguisher handy). Observe what happens and make your own judgements and/or post back here.
It's possible that the pump is leaking, but it could easily be something else.
Sometimes belts that are loose get worse and worse as they slip.
I understand your hesitation to start the engine again, but it's probably not that big a deal. This evening, prop the hood open, check the motor oil level, check the power steering fluid level, and check the transmission fluid level. Then check belt tension and also check that the belts are clean (not oily) and in good condition.
Correct any problems you might find, and then go ahead and start it up (with a fire extinguisher handy). Observe what happens and make your own judgements and/or post back here.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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- Fifth Gear
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And if your belts are loose enough and the PS pump is tight enough from lack of fluid, the smoke could have been the moving belt rubbing itself on the stuck PS pulley. That happened to me once when a rock somehow got lodged behind the PS pulley and it stopped, burned right through the belt, engine compartment was pouring smoke. But upon closer examination, that is exactly what it was. The screeching sound gave it away, I kinda figured what it was before I even stopped (just didn't know which pulley since I wasn't steering at the time)
-Chris
91SS 4EAT stock
91SS 5MT awaiting engine rebuild and VF36...
92SS 4EAT - RIP
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 289k km: RobTune550,TD05-16g @ 18psi,FMIC,3"TBE,Forester lift
91SS 4EAT stock
91SS 5MT awaiting engine rebuild and VF36...
92SS 4EAT - RIP
94SS 5MT4.11+rLSD 289k km: RobTune550,TD05-16g @ 18psi,FMIC,3"TBE,Forester lift
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- Fourth Gear
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ATF = Power Steering Fluid.vrg3 wrote:ATF -- not power steering fluid.
1995 Polo Green Subaru SVX (189k miles - 08/2007-Present)Manarius wrote:The Neo-Cons would call me a defeatist. I'd call me a realist. I'm realistically saying that a snowball has better chances in the blazes of hell than democracy has in Iraq.
It'll work though......as long as it isn't honda specific stuff.
I've been using the valvoline synpower PS fluid since I don't even remember....well over 5+ years.
I've been using the valvoline synpower PS fluid since I don't even remember....well over 5+ years.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Holy S*&!
I am an idiot. I was well aware that my power steering line had a slow leak and I was filling it rather than repair it (bad call). BUT, the car was inactive for the whole summer awaiting the water pump, and since I "reactivated" it after the repair, I forgot about the power steering situation. Shheeeoot, I am flighty.
I bet that's it. I'm eager to get home and check... too bad I'm working a 16 hour day. Oh-oh-oh-overtime baby.
Thanks for all the help. I'll update with the result when I have it.
I am an idiot. I was well aware that my power steering line had a slow leak and I was filling it rather than repair it (bad call). BUT, the car was inactive for the whole summer awaiting the water pump, and since I "reactivated" it after the repair, I forgot about the power steering situation. Shheeeoot, I am flighty.
I bet that's it. I'm eager to get home and check... too bad I'm working a 16 hour day. Oh-oh-oh-overtime baby.
Thanks for all the help. I'll update with the result when I have it.
http://www.circlestickers.com
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- Vikash
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Josh - I'm curious... why would you of all people use something other than what is specified? I mean, almost any oil will likely work, but it might not match up to what the engineers were expecting in terms of interaction with seals and kinematic viscosity at various temperatures and stuff.
Matt - Hehe.... Yup, that'd likely be it, then. Good luck!
Matt - Hehe.... Yup, that'd likely be it, then. Good luck!
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
To be honest.....that's what I had used when I first got the car. I just haven't changed. When I swap the engine in, and have to drain the rack & pump, I'll probably refill with redline D4 ATF since I had good luck with it in the trans.vrg3 wrote:Josh - I'm curious... why would you of all people use something other than what is specified? I mean, almost any oil will likely work, but it might not match up to what the engineers were expecting in terms of interaction with seals and kinematic viscosity at various temperatures and stuff.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Ok, last night I refilled what must have been 5-10 fl. ounces of Mercon brand ATF. I sure screwed up this time. I have yet to start the car to see what happens (the vagaries of going to work at 6 and getting home at 11pm).
Even if it spins up beautifully, the question arises: How much damage did I do to the belts/engine parts by running it for less than ~5-10 seconds, during which time something got hot enough to burn (likely belts; white puffy smoke which smelled like burning rubber)?????
Riddle me that oh wise Subie sooths!
(My basic understanding of physics would lead me to question the integrity of my newly installed belts (boo-hoo)).
Even if it spins up beautifully, the question arises: How much damage did I do to the belts/engine parts by running it for less than ~5-10 seconds, during which time something got hot enough to burn (likely belts; white puffy smoke which smelled like burning rubber)?????
Riddle me that oh wise Subie sooths!
(My basic understanding of physics would lead me to question the integrity of my newly installed belts (boo-hoo)).
http://www.circlestickers.com
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- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
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I doubt you did any damage to the engine. You may have damaged the belt some, but they're cheap and easy to replace.
I'm sorry to say the power steering pump may well be fried; it relies on the ATF for lubrication and could have seized up when the ATF ran out.
Maybe you should loosen the belt and see if you can turn the pump by hand.
I'm sorry to say the power steering pump may well be fried; it relies on the ATF for lubrication and could have seized up when the ATF ran out.
Maybe you should loosen the belt and see if you can turn the pump by hand.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Ok, I'll try that. If I did fry it, will either of these work as a replacement?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ename=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ename=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ename=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ename=WDVW
http://www.circlestickers.com
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- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
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I don't know... Your best bet is probably either trying to replace your current pump's bearings (do a search; someone did a really nice writeup on how to do it) or get another first-generation pump.
The first one won't drop in; it doesn't even have a reservoir (I believe that one is meant for a remote reservoir.
I don't know for sure if the second one has the same fittings as our pumps or not (it does kind of look like it), or if it uses the same type of mounting bracket as ours or not.
The first one won't drop in; it doesn't even have a reservoir (I believe that one is meant for a remote reservoir.
I don't know for sure if the second one has the same fittings as our pumps or not (it does kind of look like it), or if it uses the same type of mounting bracket as ours or not.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
I've been running my power steering pump emty and disconnected for a couple days now waiting to get a belt that just goes over the crank and alternator. No damage has been done to mine soo far. But you never know, if the car has been inactive that long maybe the fluid left in the bottom is gone.
As for ATF fluid and PS fluid, they aren't oils. It's hydraulic fluid, if anything, power steering fluid is probably better for the car as it contains less impurities than ATF. Honda's are the only car i know that it really matters.
As for ATF fluid and PS fluid, they aren't oils. It's hydraulic fluid, if anything, power steering fluid is probably better for the car as it contains less impurities than ATF. Honda's are the only car i know that it really matters.
///M
'93 Legacy SS - part out
'93 Legacy SS - part out
Update
I checked all fluid levels and then started the car today.
There was a clacking/grinding sound that was constant at first, but decreased over the span of 30 sec. until it intermittent and then gone altogether. No more smoke.
The engine appears to be running smooth now (through entire RPM range). Belts appear undamaged and clean.
Was this the sound of the PS fluid working its way back into all the bearings, I wonder? I guess I'm going to keep running as-is for a little while... keeping trips short. I'll be checking belts & PS pump closely over the coming weeks.
Any thoughts are welcome.
I checked all fluid levels and then started the car today.
There was a clacking/grinding sound that was constant at first, but decreased over the span of 30 sec. until it intermittent and then gone altogether. No more smoke.
The engine appears to be running smooth now (through entire RPM range). Belts appear undamaged and clean.
Was this the sound of the PS fluid working its way back into all the bearings, I wonder? I guess I'm going to keep running as-is for a little while... keeping trips short. I'll be checking belts & PS pump closely over the coming weeks.
Any thoughts are welcome.
http://www.circlestickers.com
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- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
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Yeah, it could have been the pump being starved for lubrication. You may want to try bleeding any extra air out of the power steering system by slowly turning the wheel until the lock, holding it for a few seconds, and then slowly turning to the other lock.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212