Should I ....

r0gu3 · Post by **r0gu3** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:00 pm

put this T04R on my FD or Legacy?

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:02 am

Question yourself. What do YOU feel is appropriate.

Tech-wise, list the benefits for each application. List the downsides of each. These will tell you what you should do (it'll also be nice to see what other people (YOU) think of pros and cons about this turbo upgrade)

Failure to comply will result in a swift nazi-lock-the-thread-ass-kicking.

r0gu3 · Post by **r0gu3** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:00 am

Well, I'm building my FD for ~500rwhp. I was just wondering what would have to be done to the EJ22 to comply with the flow rate of a T04R so that it would spool before redline?

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:07 am

If you want to consider your legacy a daily, i don't think turbo is going to be something high on your list. Considering that the t04r is a common swap for supras and rotaries, you'd have to get your legacy to do a lot more pushing to get that turbo spooled. To do this safely, you'd have to get an intercooler obviously, but you'd need to bump up your compression to get more air going, it'd be good to do some (quite a bit of) exhaust work, an effective ram-air method would help too. a new ECU is a must, injectors to match, the fuel system to go with it.... on and on and on....

No.

r0gu3 · Post by **r0gu3** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:09 am

Sounds good to me. Maybe a T60-1 would be better suited?

NICO · Post by **NICO** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:05 pm

when u get this car done i whant to see what power u make. there was a book last month i cant think off the brand but they got 3 wrx with the sti and see which one would win. there was one car wit the factory turbo in it that had not so much hp it killed all these cars. just becuse the turbo spooled up at where it was best in the gear range. boost from a monster turbo will not give u anthing. i think u should keep the factory turbo put t-bird housing and fan in and get a hks full front back side left right all the above what every thay make put it in and crank the boost cuz it will hit 35psi and get some gas in the motor some how and then u got a rocket ship motor.

mTk · Post by **mTk** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:56 pm

NICO I WRX U wrote:there was a book last month i cant think off the brand but they got 3 wrx with the sti and see which one would win.

Sport Compact Car

MK

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:18 pm

NICO I WRX U wrote:t-bird housing and fan in and get a hks full front back side left right all the above what every thay make put it in and crank the boost cuz it will hit 35psi and get some gas in the motor some how and then u got a rocket ship motor.

Let me get this straight... A t-bird compressor and HKS exhaust will make thirty-f*cking five psi.... Can ANY engine handle 35psi???

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:28 pm

if it's built right it will.

BUT if you do that with this turbo, you're way out of it's efficiency range. Don't listen to Nico when he talks about turbos.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:35 pm

or downpipes

LegacyT · Post by **LegacyT** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 10:06 pm

Hes talking about swapping out the compressor in the RHB5. the T-bird turbocoupes got RHB5's as well, but with a larger turbine compressor (VF12?? maybe, not sure) . whereas the Legacy turbo got the smaller compressor. So you can put the t-bird compressor in the legacy's turbo housing since their identical RHB5's and have a stronger turbo.

Mark,

r0gu3 · Post by **r0gu3** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:04 pm

91White-T wrote:
NICO I WRX U wrote:t-bird housing and fan in and get a hks full front back side left right all the above what every thay make put it in and crank the boost cuz it will hit 35psi and get some gas in the motor some how and then u got a rocket ship motor.
Let me get this straight... A t-bird compressor and HKS exhaust will make thirty-f*cking five psi.... Can ANY engine handle 35psi???

Two of my friends in Dallas are running 2.5 bar on their FD's .....

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:25 am

Yeah I read that magazine also Nico, I found it interesting that the STI still won overall, and it outcornered all the other cars in the slalom.

I also read in a magazine about a test with the newest Lancer and STI. The STI had more Torque, and pulled on the straight aways, but in the corners it fell far behind.

Sorry if this is off topic guys, just thought I'd comment while it was fresh on my mind.

For a daily driver, I'd care more about spool up time than high flow rate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea would be to get from 0-80 as fast as you can rather than keeping your power when your going 130. Of course, it all depends on what your looking for.

-Ryan

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:39 am

georryan wrote:I also read in a magazine about a test with the newest Lancer and STI. The STI had more Torque, and pulled on the straight aways, but in the corners it fell far behind.

I think it has to do with the suspension tuning. The WRX STi is tuned more like an off-road rally car, while the Lancer Evolution is tuned more like a tarmac rally car.

Subarus generally have a rugged off-roadish slant to them... the Legacy platform upon which all current Subarus are based was originally designed as a rally car and has always had four wheel drive at least as an option. Subarus used to even have dual-range gearboxes, too, remember? The Lancer Evolution is historically based on some kind of combination of the Galant VR-4, the Eclipse, and the Lancer. The four wheel drive systems on these cars were essentially add-ons to the front wheel drive, meant to provide better on-street performance.

Most of the comparisions I've read generally say that in the end it's your personal preference that will choose between the two cars.

Dr Nick · Post by **Dr Nick** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:55 am

Same on this side of the pond. We're now on the 8th iteration of the Mitsu Lancer Evo and they seem extrordinarily fast. The last couple (maybe 3) versions have had a switchable centre diff with settings for gravel, tarmac and snow. Apparently they are (a) mainly rwd biased, (b) 50/50 split and (c) mainly fwd biased. They also have a fantastically complex 'anti-yaw' system on versions 6 and 8. This system modifies the level of power to individual wheels allowing you to corner very quickly with virtually no understeer or oversteer.

I have a very good friend who is one of only 16 Mitsubishi Master Technicians here in the UK and he says he always comes back from a customer test with a huge adrenalin rush! Apparently there's barely a corner that you can't take at 60 or more!!

The latest version is the FQ300 (which apparently stands for flippin' quick - well the word they used wasn't "flippin" but you get the idea...) and it adds to the sensation that they are considered as more 'raw' out-and-out road racers than virtually all Subarus and although most magazine road testers lean towards the Mitsu when summing up their comparison tests, it seems quite apparent from their comments that the Scooby is easier to live with on a daily basis.

I wouldn't swap my Legacy for an Evo anyway! (but then I'm biased...)

NICO · Post by **NICO** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:50 pm

lets put it this way i am SCARED of those mitsu. talons i cant beat them at all. PUNKS. hey i cant all ways win. hear is the spec on the sti same tapper in rear spring as 91 legacy turbo. same injectors but its got bigger ones. finally they put rear vented disc on a subaru becuse everyone nows 91 legacy turbos had the best brakes in the rear and finally they get a bigger liter size turbo motor out cuz everyone nows 91 legacy turbos have the best motor going and we where the biggest turbo one out. yes 35psi it will work i wish i had more more fule flow. does anyone have flames in the muffler u gentelmen should see mine natural. the kid in the m3 seen them hahah i love my legacy

r0gu3 · Post by **r0gu3** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:56 pm

NICO I WRX U wrote:lets put it this way i am SCARED of those mitsu. talons i cant beat them at all. PUNKS. hey i cant all ways win. hear is the spec on the sti same tapper in rear spring as 91 legacy turbo. same injectors but its got bigger ones. finally they put rear vented disc on a subaru becuse everyone nows 91 legacy turbos had the best brakes in the rear and finally they get a bigger liter size turbo motor out cuz everyone nows 91 legacy turbos have the best motor going and we where the biggest turbo one out. yes 35psi it will work i wish i had more more fule flow. does anyone have flames in the muffler u gentelmen should see mine natural. the kid in the m3 seen them hahah i love my legacy

My FD was killed by an 11 second Talon.

JasonGrahn · Post by **JasonGrahn** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:23 pm

I've been working on the DSM (Talon/Eclipse/Laser) just about as long as i've been working on subarus.

If you want to talk about a bang for the buck car, those are fantastic. you can easily wring out 500hp from those cars in under $2k... Then its just a matter of saving up for all the clutches you'll need after that.

The problem that i've had is that i've got short legs and long arms (knuckle dragger anyone?) and the DSMs are suited for chicks, errr... People with long legs and short arms; therefor uncomfortable for me for extended periods of time.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:17 pm

Yeah, the DSMs are pretty sweet.

I like how Legacy Turbos are sedans or wagons, though. I almost got a Talon before I got my current Legacy, and I'm glad I didn't.

r0gu3 · Post by **r0gu3** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:19 pm

I think DSM's are the only cars that are less reliable then FD's!!!!

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 6:23 pm

My mechanic hates DSMs. He's always complaining about the cheap parts from that 'GD Chrysler' and apparently weak motor top ends. He loves Subaru and Nissan, though.

Steve

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:45 am

The last couple (maybe 3) versions have had a switchable centre diff with settings for gravel, tarmac and snow. Apparently they are (a) mainly rwd biased, (b) 50/50 split and (c) mainly fwd biased. They also have a fantastically complex 'anti-yaw' system on versions 6 and 8. This system modifies the level of power to individual wheels allowing you to corner very quickly with virtually no understeer or oversteer.

Yeah, I read from www.wrc.com, somewere in there, that mitsubishi is out of the rally scene this year. Also, they mentioned that drivers had problems driving the lancer because it would only be engaged in 4wd when it was floored or braking hard. Which doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what I remember them saying. Sapposedly it fit well with Tommy Maccanin's (spelling?) driving, but not his partner's driving.

As fast as the new lancer is, it sounded like (from the magazine I read) that the sti pulled away from it in the straight. 300 hp and 300 torque. I bet that feels nice.

-Ryan

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 7:16 am

http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/Profiles/Cars/ ... on+WRC.htm

The Lancer has never been an easy car to drive. A unique drivetrain arrangement means that it becomes a two-wheel drive car whenever it is not either braking or on full throttle, a characteristic that can make the car very unstable but also more on the limit than most.

Some drivers, notably Freddy Loix, have struggled badly to adapt to the demands of this design. But the Lancer thrived when driven by an aggressive driver like Makinen, rather than his smooth Belgian team mate

Can anyone tell me why they did this?

-Ryan

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:59 pm

I wonder if it's just to make the car easier to turn. Hand brake turns could be executed clutchless, I suppose, and less stability makes for quicker handling (as the car wants to deviate from the straight path). I read in an engineering magazine how an axle under power (and even disconnected from anything entirely, but that's something else) ads a stabilizing effect to the car, so I assume cutting the power reduces this effect. Mitsu probably figure that 4wd is best utilized only for traction under acceleration and braking. That's the cool thing about racing that isn't NASCAR - different approaches to solving a problem and making different compromises.

Short wheelbases also make a car less stable in a straight line, but more willing to turn. I use that example since you can compare the Impreza to the Legacy if you've driven them both, you know what I mean. Fighter planes are also designed to be inherently less stable for the same reasons. Just my guess.

Steve

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:29 pm

Could be.

-Ryan

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Should I ....

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