Holinger gearsets.

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scuzzy
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Holinger gearsets.

Post by scuzzy »

I contacted Holinger about five days ago to get more informaton on the WRX version 4 gearset that they sell - it should also (as far as I'm aware) fit our transmission.

the breakdown is this; they sent me alot of information, but I'll be brief about it and include the photos they sent as well.

Code: Select all

Our ratios are as follows stock:
	GEARBOX	OVER ALL		
	RATIO	RATIO	RPM DROP	K.P.H.
1ST	3.545	13.826		59.68
2ND	2.100	8.190	2853	100.74
3RD	1.366	5.327	2447	154.87
4TH	0.927	3.615	2250	228.22
5TH	0.738	2.878	1427	286.66
and their gearbox:

Code: Select all

	INPUT	OUTPUT	TOTAL	GEARBOX	OVER ALL		
	SHAFT	SHAFT	TEETH	RATIO	RATIO	RPM DROP	K.P.H.
1ST	12	38	50	3.167	12.350		66.81
2ND	14	28	42	2.000	7.800	2579	105.78
3RD	19	26	45	1.368	5.337	2211	154.60
4TH	23	23	46	1.000	3.900	1885	211.56
5TH	26	20	46	0.769	3.000	1615	275.02
these numbers assume our 3.900" rear end differential; so if you have the NA 5MT box you need the turbo rear diff.

The assembly is straight forward, but it does require some modification of the 1/2nd and 5/rev selector rods; it requires the original breaings, nuts, washers, shims, etc; so they can be in good used condition or new (I bet you'll find they're expensive new, if not impossible to find)

it does require the single piece 5th gear bearing sleeve (Subaru PN 32297 AA020) and the double tapered roller bearings on the input shaft (Subaru PN 80632 5100) so if your box doesn't have them, you need them (I think all of ours do)

Onward with the goddies: all of the selector forks are included, they're forged aluminum to prevent breakage; there's a shifter interlock included to prevent getting the selectors getting stuck on a gear.

they offer a wide ratio of gears, but the tallest first they offer is a 3.17:1 - this should help with our drop from 1st to 2nd gear.
We currently manufacture a complete 5 speed dog change, spur gear kit for the version 4, 5 and 6 WRX. It features gears that are, on average, 40% wider than standard (and so, at least 40%stronger). This is possible only because the dog arrangement is much more compact than the synchro’s and so the gear width can be increased. We have a special dog design that allows larger increases than can normally be achieved.
The kit is a direct replacement of almost all the standard gearbox internals, with no modification made to the gearbox case in most instances, with the exception of some of the later versions.
We replace the input shaft and output shaft and all the fixed gears are splined onto the output shaft (no weak Subaru keys to break). All the dog gears rotate on needle bearings (this is not the case in the stock gearbox). We also supply new, high strength selector forks to replace the weak aluminium Subaru ones, and an additional interlock, which makes it impossible to get the gearbox jammed in gear. This is a common problem with other Subaru dog change kits.

You can either send us your gearbox and we will assemble all the components into it and return it to you, or we can send the kit to you and you can assemble it yourself. Full instructions are available. If we assemble it – an additional charge applies.

A wide range of gear ratios are available, making the gearbox suitable for circuit racing, rallying, or drag racing, and we can assist customers with ratio selection for their needs, if required.

Before we can supply a kit to a customer, we will also require the serial number of the gearbox the kit will be fitted to, as the reverse idler gears vary from one gearbox type to another.
You've seen the big photo around; so here it is again:
Image

and some more:
Image
Image
Image
Image

The price for this beautiful piece of machinery is $7,259.90 at the current exchange rate - it can go up and go down depending on the value of the dollar. GST tax isn't included (about 10%; same as canada)


If you ship your gearbox to them, they can install it for you for a fee, but I didn't inquire as to the fee - I figure shipping a gearbox across the world twice would be expensive.

I was informed by my contact there that they would be willing to offer a discounted gearbox in the event that a group of people get together to buy several boxes with the same ratios in them.
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Post by scuzzy »

why Drivetrain no respond?
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Post by Binford »

'Cuz..........


















We're POOR!!! :?
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Post by ej22t »

WOW, you are the man, I am looking for any photo of our gearbox about a month with no luck. Now you make my search done....
I lost my 4 gear while driving.... so I think one of the folk maybe loose so I have to disassimable it to check.

Anyway, thanks man for the photos.

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Post by BAC5.2 »

That seems like a lot of money for a gearbox that looks inferior to other boxes available on the market.

Why is the Holinger gearset worth $7260? I HOPE that isn't US dollars.

How are their gears better than competitors gears?

It'd take a lot of convincing to pull me away from the PPG gear design and implimentation.
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Post by BAC5.2 »

Ben, while almost all transmission cases mated to EJ engines look similar, they aren't all the same. Mostly the synchro designs are different. But if you want a dog box, it shouldn't matter that much. But do you really want a dog-box?

There were variences in number and style of synchro through the years.

Lots of gearsets are for 97+ trannies, as from then on, the synchro sets are all very much the same. Before 97, there are lots of different designs, and each would require a different gear set.

If you want a dog box, they are similar through the whole entire range of model years, but with slight variences. If you want a synchro box, get a newer case and build a gear set in that. Dog-boxes aren't for the faint of heart. If you don't know what your getting into with one, don't bother. You won't like it. I've driven several on the street, and if I wasn't such a glutton for punishment, I'd have hated it. A dog box is right up my alley, but I'm also the type that prefers NVH over the lack thereof. Any increase in difficulty to drive the car for a normal person, is a thumbs up in my book.

A dogbox, or any gearset, is not to be installed at home, or installed by someone who hasn't done millions of them before.

I'll say again. I doubt anyone here, save very very very few, would favor driving a dog-box on the street over a beefy synchro box. I'm one of the few that would favor a dog-box. But ask Vikash or Matt how much I care about ease-of-driving.
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Post by THAWA »

BAC5.2 wrote:That seems like a lot of money for a gearbox that looks inferior to other boxes available on the market.

Why is the Holinger gearset worth $7260? I HOPE that isn't US dollars.
Seriously, Can't you buy a full v7 or v8 swap for that much money!
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Post by BAC5.2 »

You probably could. But the transmission is still a weak link.

The DCCD 6-speed is strong, but not god-like. I've seen broken ones with broken shift forks and such.

Supposedly, the strongest transmission ever offered on a vehicle by Subaru is the NON DCCD 6-speed over in Japan. It was, as legend goes, the transmission that Mark Lovell preferred when it came to an OEM gear box.

You'll find that lots of tuners out there prefer NOT to use the 6-speed for drag-events, simply because it's TO MANY GEARS. I've even spoken to tuners who have contemplated doing a 6-to-5-speed swap in STi's.

If you want to go REALLY fast without spending a packet, you shouldn't be driving a Subaru. If you want to get into the 10's, you'll have to spend your left nut, and then you'd barely be able to drive it on the street.
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Post by THAWA »

I never said DCCD specifically, and 6mt's only come in v7+ cars anyway.

But if you were going for a drag car why would you use those ratios?

For a road/track car (which makes more sense in a subaru) I'd take a 6mt over a 5mt anyday.

I never said you could do this cheaply, but 7 grand for just a gearset is too much damn money. You could buy multiple full transmissions for that price.
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Post by scuzzy »

THAWA wrote:I never said DCCD specifically, and 6mt's only come in v7+ cars anyway.

But if you were going for a drag car why would you use those ratios?

For a road/track car (which makes more sense in a subaru) I'd take a 6mt over a 5mt anyday.

I never said you could do this cheaply, but 7 grand for just a gearset is too much damn money. You could buy multiple full transmissions for that price.
Most definitely, you could get one MRT set and if it breaks; you've invested more than half the ammount of money you'd need to get to Holinger.

Holinger has been in the business for many years with more than just subaru components coming out of the market. I don't see why they would bother with this if there wasn't a market for it, even if it were small.

It takes considerable ammount of R&D to design a gearbox.
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Post by BAC5.2 »

That doesn't answer my question of WHY I should buy a Holinger set.

Why a Holinger set over, say, a PPG set? I know why I would buy a PPG gearset over a KAAZ, Shelak, STi RA, and the like, but why buy Holinger?

Just because they have been doing it for many years with more than just Subaru components, isn't reason enough. The fastest 4WD 4Cylinder drag car in the world (Shepherd recently ran an 8.1 in the 1.4) is using a PPG gearbox.

About the 6-speed vs. 5-speed setup, for the track, I'd still probably run a properly geared and bullet proof 5-speed. With the PPG Helical dog set and a 7000RPM redline, with stock diameter WRX tires, 4th gear runs to 130 something miles an hour. That's a lot of time on-boost, and not only makes for good drag times, but makes for good pulls without shifting. The straight cut dog box is even wider, and 4th tops out at 140 something. That's fast. You need to be in 6th in an STi to get to that speed, if I'm not mistaken. The STi that ran a 11.14 at 138mph at the shootout was shifting into 6th gear at the end of the track, and a built 5-speed is cheaper than a built 6-speed.
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Post by THAWA »

Exactly, I'm sure Holinger has lots of experience and whatnot, but how many years have they been making subaru gearsets? I just don't see the point of spending 7 grand on a robust gearset, when I could buy just as robust a gearset for half that.
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Post by evolutionmovement »

I think it seems excessive for a car worth less than half as much as that.

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Post by jimmai »

dont mean to but in lads but im here in new zealand and as far as i know in the australasian area a holinger gear set is about the most robust gearset to buy. i'm pretty sure they've been offering subaru gears for quite a while now. dont grill me if im wrong on that!
They are the masters of the unbreakable gearbox found in a godzilla skyline, GTR v-spec to you northern hemisphere dwellers.

anyhow, i would vouch for the robust holinger partname, but am not that into the dog box on the street idea myself (anyone driven an old tractor round town lately)
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Post by BAC5.2 »

PPG also mastered the Skyline box.

Image

So why Holinger over someone like PPG?

I KNOW PPG has reasons they are better over the competition. I've SEEN broken competition boxes. I've seen LOTS of broken gears.

What makes the Holinger box any different than KAAZ or Shelak or companies like that?
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Post by THAWA »

PPG gears break also.
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Post by jimmai »

holinger have a pretty solid reputation in this part of the world anyway, alot of the manufacturers i hear of on these forum's are new to me but common to you guys so maybe its just a case of locality on the other side of the world!

is that an austrailian dollar price? cos that would bring it down to more the USD$4500 mark i should think, maybe not that far out of the ballpark as you may believe in terms of comparison to "other aftermarket gearset #2?"
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Post by BAC5.2 »

THAWA wrote:PPG gears break also.
The failure rate is far less common than just about any other gearset I know of. They had a production mistake during the first runs of the WRX gearsets, some of the dog-teeth were improperly welded and were subject to recall, but the company stood behind the product (and gave everyone shift forks and interlockers for their trouble).

ESX and MRT both use PPG gears. Shepherd just ran an 8.1 with a PPG gearbox.

I'm not saying they are invincible, I'm just wondering why I should spend double the price of PPG gears on a gearset that doesn't have any advantage.

Personally, I know that I will NEVER break a PPG dog-box. Not in my car anyways.

I also don't understand Holinger's claim of using needle bearings with their transmissions.... OEM uses needle bearings too. I've seen a stock transmission apart with my own eyes, they use needle bearings.
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Post by THAWA »

Well I wasn't talking about that incident with the manufacturing problem, but yeah that too.

Also you can't say that you'll never break a PPG box, unless you mean you'll never own a PPG box. Nothing is certain.

But yeah, is there any actual benefit to Holingers setup?
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Post by BAC5.2 »

What is the Holinger contact e-mail address?
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