Legacy Dogbox...

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:36 am

Speaking with my friend at Gearboxtech.com, I have got an answer.

PPG's dogbox for the WRX WILL fit in the turbo legacy case.

How much will it cost?

For a straight cut, 1st through 4th dogbox, with all the goodies (clutch interlocker, forks, billet 5th, and all the other goodies) will set you back about $5800 shipped (you ship him your tranny, he builds it and ships it back).

For a Helical cut dogbox, it is slightly more (The helical gears take longer to cut and are more difficult to cut).

Just thought you guys would be interested in knowing that the DOG gearset by PPG for the 02+ WRX, WILL fit in our Turbo Legacy transmission case. The synchro gearset will NOT fit in our case.

A_DuB · Post by **A_DuB** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:19 am

excuse my idiocy but what is a “dogbox” ?

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:18 pm

A transmission without synchro's. Simply, when you go to engage a gear, you are physically mating the shift collar to the gear itself, without slowing the gear down (by using a synchro), before engagment.

Most dogboxes have about 5 engagement teeth that are about 1cm wide and 5mm tall. The collar has an arrangement to have the engagement teeth fit into it (with a little room to play). You simply crash the collar into the gear, and with an obscenely offensive CLUNK, your in gear.

Oh, and they are wicked loud.

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:55 am

excuse my idiocy but what is the point in having a "dogbox"?

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:13 am

High power=blown gear sets.
High power+dogbox=happy, happy, joy, joy.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:45 am

Without the need for synchronisers, the gears teeth can be wider, thus stronger. You also have straight cut teeth, which is nice because it's stronger also. PPG makes a helical cut dog-box (and as far as I know are the only ones who do so. They developed it with TurboXS). The whole thing is stronger. The teeth are of fewer count and of greater thickness. Since comfort isn't important, they can be built for strength, and strength, and that's all. The only reason TXS built a helical dog box was to sell them to guys who wanted a dog box but wanted to drive it on the street without the obnoxious whine of straight cut teeth.

Also, instead of several tiny engagement teeth as with a synchro box, you have 5 large teeth that engage directly to the collar.

Also, if you know what synchronisers do, they slow the gears down so the shift collar has an easier time sliding into the engagement teeth on the gear. Without the synchros, you simply slam the collar into the gear. It's faster. You don't have to slow the gear down before you can engage the gear, you just throw it into gear.

With a dogbox, it's possible to shift roughly as fast as a tuned automatic. You don't need to de-clutch, you don't need to lift the throttle if you don't want to. The gears are usually strong enough to handle this abuse for a good bit of time. Just floor it and yank on the shifter when you want to change gears.

It's cool, and VERY loud. I can't stress enough how loud a dogbox can be. And the best part is that the noise is normal. Nothing is breaking when it's making the noise, it's supposed to! The sound of progress, and shit doing exactly what it's designed to do.

206er · Post by **206er** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:28 am

are there any advantages to using a legacy case other than already having one in the car?
how much power would one of these be good for?
how loud are we talking here, like louder than an open exhaust or like reverse all the time?
not like I will ever run one of these, just curious

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:40 pm

The legacy case because it's already in the car.

Our case is every bit as strong as the WRX case, and it saves you from having to buy a blown WRX transmission (which usually go for around $400 or so).

Power wise? The gears? I don't know anyone who's broken a straight cut box. Phil from Element Tuning broke a PPG Helical dog box after around 4 years of 550whp. The Straight cut box is 25 to 30 percent stronger than the helical box.

Noise wise, it's worse than reverse. The straight cut teeth are roughly 3 times as wide as reverse.

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:08 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:Oh, and they are wicked loud.

only if they're straight cut

Project_Legacy · Post by **Project_Legacy** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:28 pm

sounds cool but... really expensive.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:14 pm

sammydafish wrote:
BAC5.2 wrote:Oh, and they are wicked loud.
only if they're straight cut

Not really. Helical dog boxes are still plenty loud.

They aren't AS loud, but they are still loud.

And volume isn't just in gear. The loud CLUNK when you shift or engage a gear is much louder than with a synchro box.

I've driven enough dog boxes and built synchro boxes to know the noises they make.

Helical synchro (from a big gear company, not stock or RA sized), are somewhat quiet but still have a little moan to them. Straight cut synchro is pretty whiney. Helical dog is about as loud as a straight cut synchro, maybe a LITTLE quieter, but the teeth are several millimeters wider, and that means a LOT more noise. Straight cut dog is just obnoxiously loud, but in a REALLY cool way.

206er · Post by **206er** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:50 pm

do you shift a dog box with or without declutching?

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:56 am

I'm 99% sure this kind of setup is what semi trucks use in their transmissions. I haven't opened up a case on one, but I do recall some of the co-workers using the term "dogbox" before. I'll have to check with the yahoos next week.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:02 am

You SHOULD de-clutch, but you don't HAVE to...

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:20 pm

I believe that semi's have helical dogboxes. I drive semi a bit at the farm I work at, and you don't use the clutch for anything but to get the truck moving and then to stop. The gears shift really easily, simply by revving the truck up to 2000rpm, dropping off the accelerator and shifting. They don't have synchros, which is the reason that the transmissions last so long.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:45 am

Yea, Semi's use dog boxes.

The STi 1-4 straight cut dog is almost Semi-truck sized. It's beautiful.

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:32 am

mmmm clutchless shifting. i think im gonna have to start saving some dollars for one of these.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:35 am

It is NOT clutchless shifting. It's the shift collar engaging DIRECTLY to the gear. Constantly shifting without the clutch WILL break something.

Don't expect you can buy this and never use the clutch again.

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:31 am

i know. but the ability to do so is intruging. just like that m3 nurbirg (sp) vid. i was so confused at why i never really saw his left foot move while shifting.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:49 am

That was an M3GTR. Uses an uber-SMG, not a dogbox.

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Legacy Dogbox...

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