Coil spring issues

Struts, spring, anti-rollbars, braces and the like.

Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators

Post Reply
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Coil spring issues

Post by entirelyturbo »

Okay, so here is the current suspension problem with Patti :roll:

I originally thought that my strut mount bearing was bad in my left front strut mount, causing the spring-shifting and subsequent clunking noise that would occur whenever I turned the wheel or hit a bump. While the new mounts caused my steering to feel much nicer thanks to brand-new bearings, my spring-shifting and clunking has not improved in any way.

I found out that I can actually grab ahold of the left front spring, while the car is on the ground, and shake it around inside the strut ever-so-slightly. This is the only corner of the car that I can do this on, every other one will not budge. So I have a couple theories for this:

1) My first theory is that this spring has somehow lost its rigidity, and is no longer holding up 100% of that corner's weight. It is actually transferring a slight amount of weight to the strut itself, and that allows it to move slightly inside the strut.

2) My second theory is plausible but holds much less water. I have no bottom rubber spring seats on any of my struts. The spring is sitting directly on the metal strut seat itself. This is exactly as they were on my old struts, I have never seen the original seats if there were any, and if there were, I can't find them listed in my parts catalogs, my FSM's, or anywhere else.

So, the question arises. Should I look into a new set of OEM springs to replace these old, tired ones? Or should I try to somehow find the bottom rubber spring seats that seem to have never existed?

What do you all think the problem is?
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
vrg3
Vikash
Posts: 12517
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
Contact:

Post by vrg3 »

In my experience, being able to move the spring with the car on the ground usually means either the strut top bearing is bad (so you're using the play in the bearing when you push the spring) or that the spring has rusted through (so the top isn't connected to the bottom anymore).

So you may have been right to begin with. Though I suppose it's possible that it's just not seated right in the upper and lower perches. You're correct that there are no bottom seats:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/springs/

A new set of OEM springs will cost you at least as much as a set of upgrade springs, right?.

If you need to, I think you'd be better off just getting used suspension stuff from an Impreza or something. There's a guy on NASIOC selling a v2 STi suspension that'll bolt right into our cars, for example.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

Well, the front strut mounts are brand-new, so it can't be that. Therefore, my springs must be old and tired. I'm not surprised, as I've put the suspension on this car through hell, from potholes to a rallycross.

While I know I could get a set of fancy STi springs or something, I don't want to raceify this car. This car will be nothing more than a daily driver as long as I can keep it running. Honestly, I'm already a bit upset at the stiffness of the GR2's I just installed; they're much stiffer than the old Monroes. I mean, they're not terrible, but stiffer than I'd like for a daily. But whatever.

I was actually thinking of getting a brand-new set of OEM 91 turbo springs. As best I can tell, the turbos have an ever-so-slight lower ride height than the nonturbos, so I would appreciate the slight lower profile without being slammed to the ground.

Staying as OEM as possible is key here though :)
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
JasonGrahn
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 1333
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:55 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Post by JasonGrahn »

Turbo springs will probably raise your car a tad. You have less heavy stuff in the front end of your car.
-Jason Grahn
professor
Third Gear
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: Providence RI

Post by professor »

while not solving your spring problem, you can buy some urethane tubing from www.mcmaster.com, and use it to put over the end of the spring, to replace the missing rubber seat. It is missing, there is one for both the top and bottom of the spring originally. Note that if you are clever you can probably feed some tubing on with the strut still on the car (jacked up, spring compressors snuck in)

A good spring should be compressed at least an inch when out of the car, and of course more than that in the car. Still, the friction of steel on steel is very low so you might be able to shift it if you really pull, without the rubber seat. The rubber seat is there to prevent shifting and clunking, so there you go.

Make sure the orientation of the spring is correct versus the perches; the top perch is off center a lot and you can install the strut with the center off in the wrong direction, which would cause the spring to want to move around since it isn't held firmly.
That beer you are drinking cost more than my car
JasonGrahn
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 1333
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:55 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Post by JasonGrahn »

i see missing fingers. ;)
-Jason Grahn
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

You might be right, Jason. The L 4WD and FWD sedans have the lowest overall height for 91 at 54.3 inches, and the turbo and LS 4WD sedans are 55.1 inches. Hmm.

I tried to look at the dimensions diagram on the 91 brochure on Dave's site, but they're too fuzzy.

So maybe I'll just go with the same springs I have now. Brand-new, they should all 4 cost at or around $400.

But that won't be for a while, as I'm kinda skatin on the edge moneywise :(
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
vrg3
Vikash
Posts: 12517
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
Contact:

Post by vrg3 »

Well, if GR2s are annoyingly stiff to you, then I guess it's smart to avoid STi parts... though I do find my STi suspension to be plenty streetable even in DC and Cleveland.

Maybe you should just remove the strut/spring assembly from the car and take a look at it... the problem should become obvious upon inspection.

Is the rubber seat built into the springs, professor? It isn't listed as a separate part on the parts sheets.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

The thing is, I would prefer to have a nice comfy daily that doesn't pretend to be anything it's not, and then have a full-out no-compromise performance car. That's why I stopped modding this car and decided to restore it instead and keep it as a daily, and then once I get some time and money, I will start building a pure performance car for track use.

Damn, I must be getting old :lol:

In reviewing my Haynes manual, I did see a photograph of a bottom seat under the spring, so it must exist. But that's now two people, Vikash and I, that can't find it listed anywhere...
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
professor
Third Gear
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: Providence RI

Post by professor »

the rubber seat just sits on the perches, one for the top and one for the bottom. The top one is more elaborate, the bottom one is pretty thin and shows the step where the spring ends. My top ones were in good condition but the bottom ones were worn through at the spring end.

Every original strut I've ever messed with has had rubber top and bottom.
That beer you are drinking cost more than my car
kleinkid
Fourth Gear
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:39 am
Location: Oak Harbor, Washington

Post by kleinkid »

The drawings in the the sketches in a previous post show that for the fronts there is an upper rubber seat pc. number 10 part number 20325AA000. The rear is showing an upper and a lower, pc. numbers 12 and 13 part numbers 20375AA000 and 20375AA10.
THAWA
Knowledgeable
Knowledgeable
Posts: 6829
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:44 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA
Contact:

Post by THAWA »

kleinkid is right, there is no rubber seat on the front bottom part. I haven't seen any subarus setup this way yet.

As far as buying new turbo springs, don't do that. If you want I will send you a set of stock springs that are known not to make noise for the cost of shipping.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]

I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
kleinkid
Fourth Gear
Posts: 1212
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:39 am
Location: Oak Harbor, Washington

Post by kleinkid »

I am in the process of gathering the parts needed to use the AGX struts. From what I know at this point, I would recommend that these rubber seats be installed where they are referenced. I will be using the Whiteline Control springs for 92-94 Legacy. For the rears, because the top diameter of the rear springs is a different size than the top diameter of the stock springs, and using the graphics.cornell (great resource) informatiion, I ordered the 92-94 upper rubber seats(20375AA030) from www.subarugenuineparts.com(Jamie T.). The only other thing I don't have in hand yet, but have been shipped from www.rallispec.com, is rear STi group N top mounts($124 includes shipping).
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

Well, the saga continues.

I've probably done a good 6k miles since first hearing this sound, and now all 4 corners are making a lot of noise. My guess is that the springs are slightly collapsed and the problem didn't arise until I put the nice, stiff, new GR2's in.

I finally had the chance to set aside the dough to order 4 new Turbo springs, new upper seats, top hats, etc. So in the end I'd have completely and totally brand-new parts as far as anything strut-related was concerned.

However, I've run into an issue.

There are no new Turbo springs left in the country. :shock:

My manager said we can try to have SOA put in a 'want list' of sorts to FHI, but that's no guarantee. In fact, the possibility is there that my order might make SOA say the parts are no longer available and make the part #'s obsolete.

So, what will subyluvr do in this case?

If this does happen, I will just break down, and build myself some WRX struts. New springs (I'd rather not get used stuff), the appropriate GR2's, proper mounts, seats, the whole shebang. And then I'll swap the GR2's that are on Patti over to the wagon, as it desperately needs struts.

This should work out very nicely, as I'm strongly entertaining the notion of making Patti into an autoX whore, while still being suitable enough as a daily.

Stay tuned.
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

Fuck the T-Leg springs.

If I was halfway-intelligent and at all deserving of the Brainiac picture under my username, I woulda done some searching and found the 04 WRX spring thread. This is the path I will take; I'm gonna cancel my special order for the T-Leg springs tomorrow and order these and the corresponding spring perches.

Yeah, I know, the ride will be a little rougher, I'll grow a pair and deal with it.

It's been a long day... I'm tired...
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

04 wrx springs fit really well.

Needed: 91 rear top hats. 04WRX front upper perches and rubber mount. That's it. Everything else fits beautifully.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

BAC5.2 wrote:04WRX front upper perches and rubber mount.
I didn't see the front top mounts in the other thread. I have to get the WRX front top mounts? That'll suck, coz I have brand-new top mounts already installed...

Thanks for the info though Phil!
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

No, just the upper spring perch, and the rubber peice between perch and spring. The top mount you have is just fine.

Doesn't matter if your new top-mounts are already installed. They must be uninstalled to swap to WRX springs ;)
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

BAC5.2 wrote:Doesn't matter if your new top-mounts are already installed. They must be uninstalled to swap to WRX springs ;)
Hehe, correct, poor wording on my part.

I don't have to BUY WRX top mounts is what I mean :lol:
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
BAC5.2
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9026
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Maryland www.andrewtechautomotive.com
Contact:

Post by BAC5.2 »

Correct, your current ones will work.

You DO need the upper perch, the rubber cushion, and maybe the washer. I got the washer. It was a $5 washer. But I didn't have them, and it is most definately required.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

[quote="scottzg"]...I'm not a fan of the vagina...[/quote][quote="evolutionmovement"]This will all go much easier if people stop doubting me.[/quote]
entirelyturbo
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Posts: 6000
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by entirelyturbo »

W3rd. Thanks Phil!

Edit: I know it's not good to cross-post, but I have resolved this issue, and the outcome is posted here:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... 470#170470

Thanks for all you guys' help, especially Phil!
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
Post Reply