C.E.S. racing systems 3" mandrel turbo back

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:48 pm

was at the sesquahannock trail pro rally yesterday and I won this exhaust system!

I wasn't going to enter the drawing,the guy had to talk me into it.you had to be present to win and i planned to be at the stage 5 viewing area early.so I forced myself to stay and i won,almost crapped my pants!still in shock about it.now this is for a wrx but i think i can make it work.it has a twin down pipe design,a 3" dp with a 1.75"waste gate pipe.its stainless steel,everything except 3" high flow cat,with polished muffler that has a 4" tip.now i know most say a 2.5" mandrel is plenty but what do you guys think,will this be a good mod over my current stock exhaust?the guy said this is for the TD04.I should be able to bolt the dp right up right?I know the O2 sensor will need lengthened.the guy said thiers is actually closer to the turbo then other after market dp[like hks].I took a quick look under my car and it looks like it could almost bolt right up,the only thing that i'm worried about is the mid-pipe length,and even it looks real close.so let me know what you think,thanks

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:21 pm

sure would like to here what you all think about going with a 3" mandrel turbo back.goto WWW.MSR-USA.com to check out the system.mine is the dp03.feedback wanted please thanks.

deyes · Post by **deyes** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:48 pm

I have a three inch turbo back on my talon, I love it. I plan on doing the same to the legacy but perhaps with a 2.5 in downpipe and 3in cat and mid pipe and 3in axle back. It may seem like a bit of an overkill with the stock turbo but it sure isn't going to hurt performance any

. You may want to sell it and just do a custom setup and pocket the rest. You can get a three inch cat off ebay for cheap, and some three inch exhaust pipe from summit for cheap too (but I have a welder and you may not), I prefer the hooker power flow muffler (mega flow?) over the canister style becuase of the nice tone and low restiction (hooker claims it flows more than a 2.5 in straight pipe and its designed for low compression motors.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:18 am

thanks for the reply deyes.I'm a little confused though.most people i've talked to say a 3" dp to a 2.5"cat back is the way to go,not the other way around.just thought i'd throw that out there.I'm really looking for a lot of feedback on this guys.I really dont want to beg and grovel but you guys are killing me

please check out the site and give me some feedback.

deyes · Post by **deyes** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:27 am

Actualy from what I understand it is best to go with a smaller downpipe and larger cat back due to the exhaust gases expanding as they cool.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 4:19 pm

They expand as they cool? I thought they contracted as they cooled.

legazee · Post by **legazee** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:16 pm

well matt i would have been pissin my shorts, congrats. the whole subject of 2.5 as opposed to 3" on turbo cars has been btd on every other subie board there is. go ahead and use it you will not be dissappointed. you will have to rearrange the muffler hangers, no big deal, and u might have to lengthen it a little between the muffler and midpipe, no big deal, and you might want to get an o2 bung and drill a 3/4" hole in the same location as the stock position on ur leg downpipe. then just get a plug for that lower 02 sensor hole... some have just lengthened the wires and put it in the new location, but i think it would get quicker and more accurate readings in the stock location. lucky bstd, put it on quick and annoy tha neighbors

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:12 pm

thanks legazee,small problems true.no big deal.leaning that way.thinking about picking up a td04 to go with it.I'm with vrg3 on the gases deyes.I was under the opinion that you want a much larger dp then up to create the most pressure drop,thus making the turbo operate most efficiently.then cat back pipe diameter can be smaller as gases cool and contract becoming more dense.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 7:32 pm

vrg3 wrote:They expand as they cool? I thought they contracted as they cooled.

There's a combo of stuff going on. The reason you hear people talking about exhaust gasses expanding is because you gotta take pressure into consideration too.

The gasses leave the cylinder at high pressure and temperature.

If you take a 1 gallon container, put exhaust gasses in there under 500 psi of pressure. If you then release the gasses to atmosphere, and could put them in a container under atmospheric conditions, they would take up more space.....let's say a 20 gallon container.

Temperature will also decrease during this expansion process.

For gasses, temperature and pressure pretty much go hand in hand. When you increase temp, you will usually get an increase pressure, (assuming you hold object containing the gasses to be fixed) and vice versa.

omahasubaru · Post by **omahasubaru** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:17 pm

So did you ever get this exhaust installed?

looks pretty good & should work just fine on your car. Assuming you don't have an auto, otherwise you may have some issues. 3" is good/fine & will work with what ever turbo you run, even stock. If it's free... it seems silly to me to not try it out before debating getting rid of it. It will be worlds above your stock exhaust.

Does yours have the rally style connectors?
Do you know how much these cost new?

Thanks - Jon

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:27 pm

no I haven't put it on.I don't have enough money with all the other problems i've been having[check other post by me and you'll see what I mean].I have a 5-speed so that is no problem.the only reason I was debating it is because its for a wrx not the legacy turbo,which means extending the mid-pipe and rewelding the hangers.this system is 304 stainless so this will not be cheap or easy.I also want to be sure before I hack it up to put it on because then it would be harder to sell to a rex owner.however I am leaning towards putting it on if I could just get some damn money without having to use it on stupid stuff,altenator,axles,cam/crank seals,timing belt,water pump,brakes/rotors ect...

it's been a hard couple months.not sure what you mean about rally style connectors

I think they go for between 1500-2000$ US for the whole system but don't quote me.they say that you'll get up to 22kw at the wheels on a wrx with no added boost.34kw on the sti.this system is stage 3 they also have stge 1 and 2.stage 1 is same system except it's mild steel.stg 2 is mild steel dp then stainless cat-back I am sure they are much cheaper.sorry for the long reply

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:51 am

It's on.

legazee · Post by **legazee** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:55 am

glad u finally got it installed, give us the details of the install and the noise report......and have u been sneered at by ur naybores yet?

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 2:27 am

Well the shop that did the install kinda did a hack job. The dp went on no problem, but every other hanger needed redone and this is where the shop didn't do to well. They look real rough. The muffler tip is a little off center to the cut out in the rear bumper.When I get more money and time I might try and find a better exhaust guy to redo hangers and line it up perfect.They also heated up the cat at one end and bent it slightly to meet up with the mid-pipe a little better. I had to add about 6" of stainless 3" tubing to axle back portion to join mid-pipe. Lengthened o2 sensor wire using double connecter method and put in bung just before the cat. I don't think this guy was very good but have limited choices where I live. A good custom exhaust guy could probably do a lot better job! The guy that makes the systems said he has put them on the liberty rs and only had to move 1 or 2 hangers(not all 4) and lengthen the axle-back.

The system however is incredible! Sound's amazing. Real deep, rumbling boxer sound. Not too loud but just right for me...it is loud though

It feels like I have better power, more torque, better curve,better spool up
Ect..Although it's hard to tell how much better because the sound alone makes the car feel ten times faster

I highly recommend this system! It is bad ass!

In terms of the neighbors they're probably used to it, just about everyone under the age of 40 in this town has a coffee can hanging under their car.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 2:35 am

Also check out my post in "a down pipe worth considering" thread. There is some promising news from the distributer, if you're interested.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:03 pm

I just had a 2 1/2 inch mid pipe and dual exhaust put on my car and the SOB is fairly loud. At first I was dismayed but I'm getting to like it. A shop in Montoursville, PA put the thing on (which is why I responded to this post

) and just decided not to install the resonator even though I said I wanted it on there - mutha fukas. Anyhow, my car may not be a turbo but the new exhaust helped performance quite a bit it seems. I wonder if I should do the y pipe at 2 1/2 "????
After wheels, tires and this exhaust I'm ready for a new challenge. I saw this legacy turbo in the shop when I was there. I keep wondering if that guy would be up to a challenge....

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:26 pm

hmmm, I heard that turbo guy's an ass!

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:53 am

Probably not, his car sure is sweet though especially with a new exhaust system.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:48 am

Aww shucks

You sure know how to make a guy blush....Did I hear the word challenge?

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:33 pm

Ok guys, I have great news! I have been in contact with MSR and after me bugging them almost constantly they are now offering a bolt on Legacy turbo turbo-back system

They also lowered the prices on ALL systems! You can custom order anything you want really but they are offering 2 different premade Legacy systems as of right now! Considering the quality of these systems the prices are very good, the DP is ceramic coated! The DP is setup with the o2 bung at our stock location, so you wont have to deal with rewiring(like me) or paying to have the bung moved. Anyways this is the only system specific to the Legacy turbo that I know of so check it out! www.msr-usa.com

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:57 pm

What kind of downpipe are they using??

Nevermind, I read some more on the page and found it. Dual dump CES system.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:59 pm

I wonder if the "Legacy Street" option would pass California smog? It has a cat, so I'm guessing it probably would.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:34 pm

They usually have pictures of the systems on the web site. They are working on their site so pictures should be up again soon. I'm working on posting some pictures of the system on my car too. I edited to add this..
I'm running the one cat and we're going to have emmission testing here starting 2004 and the shop that did mine said IT IS LEAGAL. The cat that comes with the street system is better then both stock cats combined. I don't know about Cali. though. I would think the sniffer test would be no problem but I'm not sure about the visual. After 5 years you can change your cats in Cali IIRC.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:35 pm

Did they actually test your emissions 92ej22t or are they giving you word of mouth. I think you may have said so before but I can't recall. My point is just that I'm not sure I'd take their word for it if you know what I mean. They sometimes have problems sorting fact from fiction at that place.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:23 pm

Thats too much money.

Im building what I consider to be the best exhaust possible for my turbo legacy. It consists of:

Perrin 3" twin dump DP 300$
Magnaflow 3" High flow cat 94309 100$
Dynomax bullet muffler 3" inside, 4" outside 24222 45$ (reduce sound, welded inline)
Dynomax super turbo muffler 3" 17673 75$
Add custom MANDREL bent tubing and installation for 250$

This is a turbo back exhaust using high quality parts, with high flow/low restriction and great sound for about 800$!!!! Those prices are high average and include shipping. Ive been working on this list for quite a while now, if you have suggestions on an alternate part please tell me.

edit: Someone asked about the dynomax. Its a straight through muffler (no restriction) usually applied to big V8 for racing. Its the best unit over all becuase it is so compact! Should easily fit at the driveshaft cross over point (after second joint, before 3rd joint) http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... LK%2D24222

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C.E.S. racing systems 3" mandrel turbo back

C.E.S. racing systems 3" mandrel turbo back

wowzaa u actually won it!

so whats it like?

NA muffler

emissions standards