I hate exhausts!!!!

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:39 pm

Manarius wrote:Josh, I was looking through your pictures and I noticed something (maybe you already noticed it). I noticed that your axles and my axles are at two different angles when sitting normally. Mine sit at an angle close to 30 degrees while yours sit at an angle of closer to 0 degrees. Maybe this has something to do with it or maybe it's just my imagination.

Yeah, that difference is due to my whiteline lower springs. The part where it's rubbing in the rear is the round part where the balls and stuff are. So that doesn't really move with suspension changes. It will move though due to drivetrain movements, which is why I'm looking into those rear diff bushings.

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:45 pm

Matt, I really don't know why I'm having so many issues. I don't think the chassis is any different, or the fact that I was n/a originally makes a difference.....I don't know. I'm just getting really fed up with it. I thought I had everything squared away.

Those of you that have the CES on there, what are your clearances like between the driveline and rear axle? 1/4" 1/2" ??? How much damn room do I need to make so this fucking exhaust doesn't rub anything?

Subtle wrote:Josh

Yeah--ss exhaust pipe is thin material and the water spray chills the straight part of the pipe. It shrinks enough to warp the pipe against whatever it will contact.

On mine, I thought the rear diff had a problem--eventually you figure it out and change the hangers or whatever until the pipe doesn't vibrate against anything at any temp.

It can be eliminated

See...that's the thing, everything is fine when it's dry, at temp, etc. It's only now when it rains do I have a problem. What sort of clearances do you have between the driveline & resonator?

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:48 pm

magicmike wrote:wow, looks likr you made out a little better than me. I paid $2000 for my CES with shipping. must have been the exchange rate lol? I had to cut the trans support on my car to get the DP to fit. I had posted the photos a while ago when I put it in. I'm concerned about how close you are to the mount in your pics. I'm thinking you might get a rattle or a bump when shifting gears or going over bumps. other than that, welcome to the elite few with the best sounding boxer exhaust in the world!

A beautiful site...
yours...
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_5972.JPG
mine...
http://www.thawa.net/gallery/albums/alb ... .sized.jpg

Mike,

Which mount are you concerned about how close the exhaust is too?

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:11 am

I can't believe I am writing this when the Seahawks are working hard to get by the Giants. To nerve wracking to watch, so have it on the radio. Anyway, when I first installed my CES there was rubbing on the axle just where yours is. I loosened all the flanges except at the turbo and tried to get each piece to come down in the bolt hole clearance, working forward to aft. I ended up with about 5/16" clearance at the axle. Everything was good until I had the clutch replaced and had STi tranny mount installed. Now it rubbed on the crossmember, vibrated and sounded like crap all the way home from Portland. I pulled the crossmember out and cut out the forward and aft sections enough to give clearance. Alexander touchdown for Seattle,21-13. You come back to Seattle Josh and you can be where there is a good pro team. I'll shut up about the Seahawks, the game ain't over and they haven't proven nothin yet, but it is fun to have a good team to follow. There is about 1/2" clearance now and have had no further problems. You may be able to gain clearance by bending the hanger brackets. By the way I have Kartboy hangers.

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:12 am

I was talking about this pic right here
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_5991.JPG

looks like you only have maybe 5mm here. could be more but doesn't look like much in the pic

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:44 am

That's an old pic. I've since bent things so clearance is better. I didn't get any rubbing in that spot when I was out driving.....just the two spots I mentioned.

Yeah I was wondering about getting stiffer hangers, to see if that works.

Subtle · Post by **Subtle** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:16 am

Additional thoughts on keeping the exhaust pipe isolated.

On mine, the dp is 3 inches to a 3" high-flow cat. Then it is necked down to 2.5. The intention was to provide a little more clearance under the back
axle when on back roads.

Even with this the first cold rain puddles could warp the straight part of the pipe enough to make it vibrate against something.

Maybe the 2.5 section helps

By the way, the dp has a divorced dump for the waste gate that runs about one foot before it taps into the main pipe.

Available in Vancouver at $ 460 cdn

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:20 pm

Kartboy has extra long hangers, which he thinks are about 3/4" longer then stock. I'm probably going to go that route since it is the least costly.

Once I get them in, I'll have to check and verify I'm in the "clear"

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:53 pm

I bought the longer Kartboy hangers when I had the rubbing on the axle because I thought that would be the fix. Put them on and they made the system hang to low. Looked really bad at the tip, didn't mate with the recess in the bumper and so i put the standard length Kartboy hangers back in. That is when I loosened the flanges and forced every section down in the bolt hole clearance. That gave the clearance I have now,5/16". I just measured the pit circle(center of hole to center of hole) for the long hangers and it is 2 3/8". I just checked, I have been saying that I have the standard Kartboy hangers in, I don't have them on my 91 SS, my '00 OBW does with a Stromung catback. Stiffer hangers would be fine but I don't think just that will help you. To get more clearance at the tip of the muffler on my Outback I bent the hangers on the muffler up, which allowed it to hang lower. Just an anecdote that may apply. Don't give up, I know its frustrating. You will get it the way you want eventually.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:54 pm

So you're saying that the extra long kartboy hangers cause the system to sit too low?

You're running the standard kartboy hangers now?

Do you have the center of hole to center of hole dimension for the standard kartboy hangers?

I'd like to compare that to the stock hangers.

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:57 am

I have the stock hangers on my 91 SS. I don't have a stock one off the car to take a measurement on. The long Kartboy did make it way low, the mufffler tip especially looked dumb that low.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:48 am

damn.....I seriously want to torch the fucker

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:37 am

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:19 am

I'm really quite in a bad mood right now....the exhaust is part of it....but I'll save my rant for the ashtray.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:09 am

Josh, maybe I can help.

I had some problems with my install too.

As you already know, your driveshaft is causing some of this rubbing. That will solve that rubbing, or it should.

Also, as I recall, the system was designed for the post-face rear subframe, which is different from the pre-face one. I forget how, but I remember Hardy telling me about it.

Are you concerned with the axle rubbing the exhaust, or with the subframe banging into the exhaust?

Why not just replace rearmost axle-back exhaust hanger (the "third" hanger), with a kartboy Long? That will push the exhaust down a hair, and help clear the subframe, without making it look stupid.

See if that helps any.

Also, what lateral links are those!? Those are gangster. I can't imagine at all why you would need to add that much toe, but hey if it works! How did you check to make sure your rear track was set up properly? Just measure total length compared to stock?

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:56 pm

Hey Josh,

Crazy idea for you. Try pulling off the ralley hanger stuff. Pull off hte pins and the washers. Currently I only have one pin in, and that is the midpipe one. When I tried to put in the two muffler pins and washers I started getting some rubbing. I attributed it to the accident I had been in and possible frame tweeks. I haven't put in the pins and washers since getting the car fixed, but everything stays in. The hanger on one side of the muffler looks like it is only holding the hanger on half of its hole, but everything holds snug. Maybe try pulling the pins and washers out and let the exhaust just sit there free for a bit. Wiggle it around and drive a little and see if that gives it some clearences you didn't have before. It may be you need to push the holes that were drilled further to the outside of the hanger bars. Like I said, when I put everything in tight it rubbed, but I thought it was due to an accident. Crazy idea I know, but it can't hurt.

-Ryan

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:30 am

Phil,

Not sure I understand your comment regarding the driveshaft? I've already swapped to the 92-94 driveshaft. Was that what you were referring to? The rub I'm getting when driving in the rain is in a completely different spot then where it rubbed with the cv style driveshaft.

There is a difference in subframes between the n/a's and turbos. All the earlier n/a subframes supercede to the latest number. The turbo ones don't. I don't know exactly what's different however the rubbing I'm getting is on the drive axle, not the subframe.

The axle is where I'm getting the rubbing in the rain. It was much less severe then the driveshaft rubbing, so I think playing with how the exhaust sits and rear diff bushings might help.

That's a good idea about that third hanger. I did get some measurements on the kartboy lengths when I was in portland. The stock & the standard length kartboy hangers are 1.5" from the center of the hole to the center of the hole. The xl ones are 2.5"

The lateral links are the whiteline adjustable links. Why are they "gangster" I got them because I wasn't sure whether I would be able to get the camber I wanted....and didn't want to run camber bolts. I basically wanted the adjustability.

When I initially put them in, I lined up the old links and new links, put the bolts through the holes, and adjusted the links until the length was pretty much dead on with the old links. I installed them, and then took the car to get aligned. They've been great. I haven't had any problems with them.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:31 am

Ryan,

I'll try taking off the rally washers and clips and see if that makes any difference.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:44 pm

Gangster in a good way. You could make a car handle like shit with those

. But you could also make it handle really well.

Good call using adjustable links instead of camber bolts. Some people have broken camber bolts, or had them slip.

How much did you pay for them? And do they use the stock eccentric toe-adjustment bolt?

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:53 pm

$249 + $12 shipping from isr which they changed their name to renick motorsports

I used the stock eccentric bolt, but no adjustment is done with it. It just holds everything in place.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:00 pm

Flextube off the downpipe would solve all your problems!!!

Flaming $5 Side dump what?

Haha...

In all seriousness, good luck with fitting your exhaust, I know what it is like fitting stainless 3" in a lowered SS...

Post by **Legacy777** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:43 am

Played with the exhaust tonight. Tried loosening up all the bolts and see if it'd drop any. I don't think it really dropped any.

I took off individual hangers. First the mid pipe one....didn't do a thing. I then took off the one on the axle back. Didn't do a thing. I now had two hangers off and the exhaust didn't really sit any lower.

I put the mid-pipe hanger back on, and then removed the two at the muffler tip. It dropped down about an inch. Which would probably be right on for using the longer kartboy hangers. I'm probably going to just try those and see how it looks/fits. From how it looked just sitting there, the tip didn't look too bad.

If this is the only way I can get the clearance with out taking a hammer to the exhaust, I'll live with the tip being an inch lower.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:49 am

I finally got the extra long kartboy hangers in. They're ok I guess. It looks sort of stupid.

The clearance should be fine at the rear axle, however I'm still not sure the clearance will be enough for the driveline.

If it is....what I may do is take the exhaust to a shop and have them bend the piping slightly so I maintain the current clearances, but raise the tip more near where it was before.

I guess I just need to go do some driving in the rain the next time it really pours.

Here's pics
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... oyexhaust/

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:08 am

I think you have a good idea in going to a muffler shop to have to have them help you out. When I was working on my CES to get it to fit nicely, I put the longer Kartboy hangers on and it looked like yours, too low. I thought it loooked dumb, also. I then put the stock hangers on and did something different. When I installed my Stromung stainless(first one was steel, rusted out in three years) cat back with twin tip on my '00 OBW, the tips were right up against the underside of the bumper. I figured it would need some heat on some hangers to get them to bend to get the needed clearance. Took the car down to Buckey's in E. Bremerton, they put it up on their lift, looked at it, disconnected a couple of hangers with a really neat special tool, put another really neat special bending tool on a couple of brackets, bent them a little, reconnected the hangers and voila, got the clearance. He said no charge, just remember them the next time. Your local shop may have an easy fix also. Let us know how it turns out. If I could send you some of our very plentiful rain here I would. 4" in last 48 hrs. here in Bremerton.

wiscon_mark · Post by **wiscon_mark** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:08 pm

it doesn't look too terrible, but I'm not looking at the whole back end of the car in that pic either.

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I hate exhausts!!!!