LPG powered '91 turbo

[Binford]

I'm looking for any info that might help me figure out what I need and where to get it to convert my car to propane. Any help would be much appreciated. Google finds places in other countries that convert but offers little to no info. This is about the best I could find:
http://www.gasresearchpc.com.au/html/lpg_system.html

Lots of info for carbed setups, but not Fuel Injected Forced Induction(FIFI?)

Hell, I don't even know if it'd be legal. Oh well! Never cared much for legalities, anyways!

[206er]

should be legal, and maybe you can get a tax credit for having a alternative fuel vehicle.
main issue I can think of is how to control the spark, since most LPG mixers are entirely mechanical. maybe you can fool the ecu into keeping stock ignition while there is no fuel. that might be difficult due to 02 sensor issues. another way would be rig up a EDIS setup. food for thought. LPG is cool stuff and from what I have read works great on turbo motors.
I'd go with a mixer for a small block chevy quadrajet, should give enough fuel. you can pick up an entire setup off ebay for like $400.

[Binford]

This is a pretty good forum I just found tonight. Not too many members, though! http://fuelsforum.rasoenterprises.com/index.php

And another site, has injectors for lpg: http://www.keihin-corp.co.jp/english/pr ... index.html

I don't know if anybody else is really interested in what I find, but I figured I'll throw in some links and info of what I find here. Most notibly so far, I've found that stoich A/F for turbo'd LPG is 15.5, and running lean is actually better, as it reduces EGTs(backwards thinking from what we're all used to). Advancing timing curves is the norm, but this will also increase EGTs. So as with any tuning, careful balancing is required. I am just repeating what I've read elswhere on the net, so don't blame me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be making sense to me. I've kinda skipped learning the basics concerning what parts are needed and what they do, but I'm slowly picking up on it.

[Binford]

This is a comprehensive listing of regulations and incentives for various alternative fuels provided by the U.S. Department of Energy.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/laws/incen_laws.html

So, according to that, no incentives in my state, but a good resource nonetheless.

[sammydafish]

It can be done, you might need to change your injectors though. You just need a way to keep the propane liquid until injection. So lines capable of really high pressure are a must. There are quite a few SAE papers on it and you might want to look at a repair manual for some descriptions of operation info on a new LPG Civic. The EPA is using them all over the place now for their own fleet vehicles. In NY the DEP and DEC run them too. You should be able to find info pretty easy. Other than maybe changing injectors and running a wide band to pick up on the new target A/F you should be golden. Who knows, you might even be able to run factory management with just a programmable output wideband to tune the stock ECU to the new lambda ... I'm just speculating there, but it's a possibility.

I'm currently doing some work with biofuels, specifically vegetable oil diesel fuel. To bad the US has such a limited selection of alternative fuel cars.

[sammydafish]

This is a comprehensive listing of regulations and incentives for various alternative fuels provided by the U.S. Department of Energy.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/laws/incen_laws.html

So, according to that, no incentives in my state, but a good resource nonetheless.

BTW, check with the EPA, there is a federal tax incentive for running alternative fuel cars.

[Binford]

It can be done, you might need to change your injectors though. You just need a way to keep the propane liquid until injection. So lines capable of really high pressure are a must. There are quite a few SAE papers on it and you might want to look at a repair manual for some descriptions of operation info on a new LPG Civic. The EPA is using them all over the place now for their own fleet vehicles. In NY the DEP and DEC run them too. You should be able to find info pretty easy. Other than maybe changing injectors and running a wide band to pick up on the new target A/F you should be golden. Who knows, you might even be able to run factory management with just a programmable output wideband to tune the stock ECU to the new lambda ... I'm just speculating there, but it's a possibility.

I started a thread on the alternative fuels forum I mentioned above. Take a look. http://fuelsforum.rasoenterprises.com/v ... .php?t=176

I cannot find any info on propane injection, except for deisel suplement. Actually, I was pretty much advised not to go that route in my thread there. I am certinainly interested, however I'm leaning towards a setup with a draw through mixer before the turbo. This is just simply the easiest(cheaper) route I see. I know this is taking quite a few steps backwards in technology, but I don't know if I could ever figure anything out just right in terms of injection. Also, I don't know if you realize this or not, but I'm not going for a dual fuel setup, only lpg.

[All_talk]

You may wanna poke around the USMB, I know a couple of people on there have converted old school Subies to LPG.

Gary

[206er]

how will you go about setting up the spark if you use a regular mixer?

[subawhatsubawho]

There is a guy on SLi that did the LPG conversion. He is in Bosnia and did it because petrol is $6.00 a gallon.

He had a large tank in the back of his wagon, some sort of petrol cut-off switch under the hood and a sweet fill point near his rear bumper. I know he was running dual regulators for some reason.

He said he gets great milage but really crappy power. I don't imagine it would be a good idea to do it on a turbo engine. I could be wrong.

[wiscon_mark]

There's a guy on here who showcased his Brat that had an EJ22t engine that was LPG converted. He also changed out the coil packs for a distributor.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=22565

look for a post by tasbrat

[206er]

in australia they got ej blocks with distributors on them. I dont see any easy way to put on a distributor short of buying an australian motor.
oh, and LPG is great for a turbo. it is about 110 octane.

[wiscon_mark]

I was under the impression that tasbrat converted his to distributor

[206er]

woops, my bad. reread the thread a little more carefully and:
"In the starboard side head there is a Subaru Fiori (Sherpa?) distributor installed in the blank plug and onto the cam."
I have no idea how this works though, seems simpler to set up a megaspark.

[Binford]

I'm going to abondon this idea for now. If I were to convert I'd ideally want vapour injection, and it seems it would cost me WAY too much right now. It'd also take far too long to figure everything out, and I just don't have the time to invest right now. So, I ordered a Walbro today, like I should've a month ago. I WILL convert something to lpg though, I promise! It'll probably be a high compression Ford FE. Nice and simple!

[sammydafish]

FYI, started doing my taxes today, and found this under the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Credit

Clean Fuel

A clean-fuel vehicle uses one of these fuels instead of or in addition to gasoline:
- natural gas or liquefied natural gas
- liquefied petroleum gas
- hydrogen
- electricity
- other fuel that is at least 85% alcohol (any kind) or ether

so that means that if you run your rig on E85 you qualify too. Under the instructions it sounds like you can deduct the cost of converting your car. Might actualy help making it worthwhile.

[evolutionmovement]

Works for Ford with all there flexible fuel (FFV) Tauruses etc. I didn't know you could also write that off on your taxes as a consumer of said product. Good to know you can get some benefit from owning a Taurus.

Steve