Right on ciper what ever works, but the C.E.S. dp is higher quality,ceramic coated and has a changeable boost plate for different turbos. The resonator and muffler are Supercat, Which some of the boys down under can probably attest to being the sheeit. The cat is carsound which is top of the line.The systems offered by MSR bolt on so most people could do the install themselves. It's all tig welded, polished 304 stainless and I'm pretty sure the Legacy systems(the WRX,STI do) come with rally style hangers and hardware.
IMO your mandrel bent tubing and install cost are very low unless you are using mild steel or have a friend giving you a inside deal. Stainless runs around $14 a foot unbent and each weld runs $20-30.
Your setup sounds great and economical but you get what you pay for and I don't think the two setups stand eye to eye. These systems are TOP OF THE LINE. But hey, I got mine for free so I can't say much about the price because I probably wouldn't have spent $800 let alone $1,100-1300 being a family man and all. But for those of you that want show car looks with high performance this is where it's at. I also want it known I don't get a damn thing if anyone buys one. I don't work for MSR or anything. I truely think these systems are the bomb diggity. It also seems to be the only company investing in the Legacy turbo community so I hope they succeed.
-Matt
'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE
[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
I dont agree that the CES downpipe is higher quality. The only positive I see is ceramic coating and the plate, both of which are minor in my opinion. Especially the separation, who do you know that has needed a different plate for the turbo?
Ive seen INFINITELY more magnaflow cats installed compared to carsound, not sure how they compare flow wise but many non subaru enthusiasts use them.
I see no benefit for stainless, unless you want to show off to the guy changing your oil. Ive seen plenty of plain old steel exhausts without issue. I cant remember anyone ever telling me of a problem caused by the surface rust of the exhaust piping.
Ive also seen INFINITELY more dynomax mufflers installed on every type of vehicle. They are probably the 1st or second most common muffler you will ever see. Ive read comments on the subaru forum about the dynomax units many times, this was the first Ive read of supercat.
My tubing costs are low because its mild steel and the person isnt trying to gouge customers. The price is simply parts plus labor.
I dont agree that you get what you pay for. If I was local to you I wouldnt mind splitting the cost of having the car dyno'd with both systems. Honestly I dont think any difference would exist between the two besides price and sound.
Ive heard each of the mufflers Im using on other vehicles (separate) so Im confident that the resulting sound of both combined will be very nice.
Ill be using the same exhaust shop that Nate from S-Squared used. Eastbaysubaru saw his 3 inch exhaust, he can verify that it was very nice. You also have to realize that the prices I posted are as if I purchased them myself. The actual cost is probably lower, I just wanted everyone to get an idea of what it would cost to do it themselves.
Last edited by ciper on Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Stainless does last much longer than mild steel if you're in an area where they salt the roads in winter. If you keep your car long enough it can more than pay for itself.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Well besides the ceramic coating and boost plate the wastegate dump reenters the main dump much further down the dp for better flow. In terms of the boost plate, no I don't know anyone personally running a diffferent plate or the exhaust for that matter. But on different turbos the space between the flange and the inside area where the exhaust turbine and wastegate are can be different depths so different plates makes perfect sense. It probably wouldn't matter for a commuter car but if you are doing any racing you will want maximum performance and that's why they offer after market turbo plates.
In terms of the magnaflow cats, you see many more because they cost less then carsound. I don't know the real difference either but have heard that carsound is top of the line.
In terms of the mufflers you haven't heard of Supercat because they aren't sold here, they're from Australia which is where C.E.S. is located. I have looked into them a little and everything i've heard is very positive. They are very high quality.
Interms of the "you get what you pay for" your statement is flawed because performance aside stainless will last much, much longer. And yes I've seen lots of vehicles with exhaust leaks/holes in the pipes after 7-8 years with mild steel. You live in the bay area so you don't deal with snow too much but come here to the northeast where they salt the roads like crazy and see how long that setup lasts.
I'm sure your setup will sound and look great and i'm not dissing it. I think the C.E.S. systems are well worth the money though.
I have a friend that had ( got an EVO 8 ) a WRX with a turbo xs turbo back that absolutely drooled over the sound put out by this system.
-Matt
'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE
[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
ciper wrote:vrg3: What, 15 usable years for mild and 25 for stainless? When have you seen an exhaust needing to be replaced (not counting the muffler itself)?
Here in Upstate New York, it's not uncommon for 10-year-old systems to be leaky beyond repair due to being rusted through. Quality stainless exhaust systems should last more than 25 years.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Thanks guys It's the main, My car is running strong and I'm not getting any codes for the o2 sensor. I may move it to the stock location on down the road though. The new Legacy systems offered by MSR will have the bung in the stock location already.
-Matt
'92 SS 5mt. All go and no show. Sold :(
'94 Audi UrS4 Modded (new project)
'96 Outback 5mt.
'07 Legacy 2.5i SE
[quote="Redlined"]
Oh... and I hope the fucker get bunked with Gunter, arrested for raping Gorillas.[/quote]
Well I know everyone is usually on a budget when it comes to modding a 10+ year old car. I have a shop locally that has been making mandrel bent exhaust systems for all kinds of custom cars for a long time. He has pricing on the WRX turbo back systems and I'm sure the legacy systems would cost the same. Here is the web site www.vrsexhaust.com click on the cat back link and scroll down to WRX turbo back. the pricing is competive. I was planning on stopping by next week and making sure that he does not already have a jig, he may. In any case he can make Legacy specific turbo-back systems.
being a family man and all. But for those of you that want show car looks with high performance this is where it's at. I also want it known I don't get a damn thing if anyone buys one. I don't work for MSR or anything. I truely think these systems are the bomb diggity. It also seems to be the only company investing in the Legacy turbo community so I hope they succeed.
It's the main, My car is running strong and I'm not getting any codes for the o2 sensor. I may move it to the stock location on down the road though. The new Legacy systems offered by MSR will have the bung in the stock location already.