Cheap, simple suspension mods?

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:17 am

So I've got this Legacy (in my signature), and I want to make it handle a little bit better. I'm not very mechanically experienced, and I'm on an extremely limited budget. So I was wondering if anybody knew of some cheap mods that were simple to do. I'm a complete newbie when it comes to this stuff, so I did a search and read the suspension sticky, but they both just made my head hurt.

Incidentally, my rear struts are leaking, so if there's some way to work replacements into the suspension upgrades, that would be cool. My family's mechanic back in Maryland charged us ~$800 to replace the leaking front struts, but I'd like to do the rears for considerably less if possible.

Thanks for any help you can give...

Subtle · Post by **Subtle** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:34 am

If the stock front and rear stock suspension elements are sound, one of the next steps to
consider would be stiffer front AND rear sway bars. Of course this implies new links and bushings as well.

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:38 am

If you buy used parts and do the work yourself, it's much cheaper. I got my full set of STi suspension for $500 plus shipping. I wouldn't recommend getting them because of the rear fitment and camber issues you run into, though. Also they're not a good idea if you want a comfortable ride.

I believe you can get a set of KYB GR2 struts and whiteline flatout springs for around $550.

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:38 am

Subtle wrote:If the stock front and rear stock suspension elements are sound, one of the next steps to
consider would be stiffer front AND rear sway bars. Of course this implies new links and bushings as well.

What would the approximate cost of that be? $100? $500? Also, I read that if I switch to stiffer swaybars I would need to get stiffer springs too... is this true? And finally, can you give me any recommendations on what specific parts to buy? That list in the sticky confuses the hell out of me, and I don't really see where it says whether something in particular would fit.

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:40 am

jamal wrote:Also they're not a good idea if you want a comfortable ride.

I don't care about ride... The last car I drive was a 1992 Infiniti G20. Terrible ride, but man could that thing handle!

jamal · Post by **jamal** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:41 am

pdm-racing.com has a whole bunch of whiteline stuff that will fit a 90 wagon. struts and springs and coilovers for a 93-01 impreza will also fit, but you need to get stiff enough springs for the rear and also the strut tops are slightly different on 90-91 legacies.

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:51 am

jamal wrote:pdm-racing.com has a whole bunch of whiteline stuff that will fit a 90 wagon.

Thanks for the site -- I found some swaybars on it. Can someone give me a brief summary of what I'd need to do to install the swaybars? Do I need to disassemble a bunch of stuff to get to them, or are they fairly easy to reach once I get the car up on jackstands? The site has rear swaybar mounts as well -- does anyone think those would be necessary?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:55 am

Swaybars are probably the single simplest suspension mod to install, the go over everything else.

NuwanD · Post by **NuwanD** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:02 am

"and I'm on an extremely limited budget"

Here's some el cheapo stuff you can do.

- Make some new rear droplinks out of heim ends and threaded rod, or shim up the most likely shrunken stock droplink bushings with washers

- Turn front camber bolts to max -ve camber

- Play around with tire pressures (higher fronts, lower rears)

That'll really help turn in, and will be a noticeable difference in handling. Be weary of camber wear if you only take turns like a grandparent.

As for more detailed explanations and how-to; i'm tired, I'm sure someone else will chime in with help.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:33 pm

Don't adjust the camber in the front yourself, it will change your toe settings, and tire wear will suffer dramatically.

In priority:

1) Changing the rear struts to a GR2 or AGX will give you a bit more lift throttle oversteer and improve the ride. Change your brake and ps fluids. $150 if you DIY, and they're easy.

2) Make sure your car is properly aligned. 1.5 degrees negative camber all around and 0 toe is fun and not hard on the tires. It will also make the car a bit more tail happy. 60$ at a shop.

3) what nuwan said re: shimming. PU steering rack bushings. 50$ diy.

4) a set of wrx wheels can be purchased for ~200 bucks with decent perf. tires.

All this stuff still won't make the ride any harsher, if that's what you want, but it will make the car more sensitive to your imputs and return better roadfeel.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:06 pm

You won't get 1.5 deg of neg camber with stock suspension. I'd be surprised if you can even hit -1 deg.

I'd personally recommend you replace the front and rear struts together. Running mixed matched struts on the front and rear can cause handling issues, either excessive oversteer or understeer, depending on which ones stiffer.

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:07 pm

Okay, so the swaybars would be a total of $350, and the struts (front and rear, since Legacy777 recommended changing them both at the same time) are $430. Ouch. Considering that I'd likely not be able to do both at the same time, which upgrade do you think would have more of an impact? Also, how easy are struts to replace? Keep in mind I've never really done a major repair to a car before, although I am comfortable enough unscrewing stuff from my experience with computers.

Also, can I do this work in small enough chunks so that, say, I can complete each stage on a Saturday, or worst-case, over a Saturday-Sunday period? I don't have access to a garage, and this car is my daily driver (and I don't have access to another one, although worst-case I could bum a few rides off friends).

Scott -- where are you finding WRX wheels and tires for $200? I looked on eBay and they seem to be going for at least twice that.

Would a Chilton//Haynes manual do the trick for my needs, or should I get the FSM? What tools would I need -- e.g., does anyone have a narrowed-down list of what wrenches are needed for the Legacy? I don't want to go buy a $40 toolkit and not use most of the stuff in it.

206er · Post by **206er** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:36 pm

if you want a cheap way to replace your rear struts and get better handling at the same time, I have a set of just the rears KYB GR2 struts with wagon springs on them. a little stiffer spring, a little stiffer valving. cheap. PM me for more info.
FWIW, rear struts are super easy to change. its 5 bolts per side.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:10 pm

$800 to replace struts is way to expensive.

All 4 struts charges 4 hours + alignment. That comes out to $320 + $90. Work done by a competent shop, that is.

Are you still in MD? Our shop is located there.

Stock bolts on a Legacy will get you to around 1 degree. Stock bolts and camber plates got me to just about 2 degrees. I backed that back to 1.5

. I'm gonna toss some camber bolts in the front and rear and run a little more.

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:18 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:Are you still in MD? Our shop is located there.

I'm in Utah with this car now, but there are still four cars in my family back in MD (a 2001 Forester, 1992 Legacy, 1992 Infiniti G20 on its last legs, and brand-new 2006 Audi A4). Gaithersburg is a bit far to drive, but I will tell my mom that the struts should have cost a lot less. We were quoted $1600 for all four struts, but they didn't have the rears in stock, and I needed to drive out to Utah the next day.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:20 pm

Holy crap!

Seriously. Tell her to give us a call. We work almost exclusively on Subaru's. Pick up the issue of Import Tuner with the yellow/blue RSX on the cover, and there is a black WRX in it. We built that car. As well as maintain the Element Tuning Time Attack WRX.

Chef · Post by **Chef** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:15 am

Okay, $1600 is insane. I would never go to that mechanic again for anything, you are being seriously ripped off. Listen to these guys here, they are extremely knowledgable and giving great information.

Sounds like you're fairly green, no worries, I'm not much better. Gotta start somewhere. I'd recommend probably having a shop do your struts. If you just replaced the fronts, there is probably little need to do the rears too unless you really want to improve handling badly. Having consistent strut brands is great, but unless there are serious handling difference between them, probably no big deal. Having munroes in the front and KYB GR-2s in the rear though may be a problematic difference. I defer to the experience here for sure.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:30 am

$1600 would be half what I paid for my car.

dzx · Post by **dzx** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:09 am

Goddamn, I bought four shocks for 40 dollars and took about 2 hrs to install. (back shocks were a little more difficult to get to the bolts.) Just watch ebay for them if you want something cheap.

Binford · Post by **Binford** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:21 am

IronMonkeyL255 wrote:$1600 would be half what I paid for my car.

$1600 is three times MORE than I paid for mine! Until I started adding parts, that is.

I would do a thourough look-over at your current components on the car. Try to bounce all four corners (one at a time) by pushing down on the car really hard. If any of them bounce more than once, time for new struts. I would try to replace both front and rear, finances permitted. Maybe do the rears first (easier?), then next month do the fronts. If you add a stiffer sway bar to worn out struts, you are adding stress to the components and bushings themselves. Take a look at all the bushings under your car. Are any of them heavily cracked, or maybe missing chunks? Maybe you could just replace some (or all) bushings and get the desired handling effect. I don't know how far you really want to go, so maybe start there. Of course, if you decided afterward to upgrade to larger swaybars or something, they may come with upgraded bushings, effectively wasting money on stock replacements.

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:48 am

Binford wrote:I would try to replace both front and rear, finances permitted. Maybe do the rears first (easier?), then next month do the fronts.

We already paid the $800 to get the fronts replaced. I will check the rear corners though.

One of my friends suggested that going +1 on the wheels and tires would be a better idea -- that the stock size tires will limit any gain I get from better struts/swaybars. Is he right?

206er · Post by **206er** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:02 am

to a point. +1 will give more overall grip, but combined with a clapped out suspension will still handle inconsistently.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:15 pm

Legacy777 wrote:You won't get 1.5 deg of neg camber with stock suspension. I'd be surprised if you can even hit -1 deg.

I'd personally recommend you replace the front and rear struts together. Running mixed matched struts on the front and rear can cause handling issues, either excessive oversteer or understeer, depending on which ones stiffer.

Camber- Sorry, i never played much with the alignment until after i changed my suspension. 1.4 degrees is the LEAST neg camber i can get.

Struts- so it will make the car more prone to oversteer... true, it's probably not ideal for a commuter, but i know of plenty of yutzes who put gigantic swaybars on the rear of their wrxes. In my experience (on a bmw) it took a fair bit of dampening changing before the car started to really change. Hell, you didn't notice you had a bum strut until you pulled it.

To my recollection, changing the rear struts does not alter your alignment.

Wheels- i've bought 2 sets of wrx wheels with fairly new re-92's off nasioc and craigslist for 200 and 250$. They're not overkill at all.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:50 pm

You don't have camber bolts, and -1.4 is the LEAST you can get?

How? That's WAY out of factory spec.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:55 pm

Scott....something doesn't sound right.

Do you have it lowered extremely low?

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

Cheap, simple suspension mods?

Cheap, simple suspension mods?