Need advice quick as I'm doing it right now

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:13 pm

I'm replacing my crank/cam seals and timing belt. A mechanic I know that works on subarus told me I don't need to TDC the engine as long as i'm carefull and the "markes" all line up. He says he never TDC's the engine first. I don't have a compression tool either. So what say you guys? I have the fans ect.. allready out but I'm getting nervous about the TDC situation. Please advise me, have any of you done it without doing TDC first? Thanks

sullione · Post by **sullione** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:03 pm

I didn't TDC when I had to replace my crank pulley when it fell off. I'm not sure if I got lucky or what but I didn't have any problems. Come to think of it, I didn't TDC at all when that happened.

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:36 am

Sorry I think I need to clerify,I was in a hurry earlier and didn't explain it right. The mechanic told me I didn't have to TDC the #1 cylinder on the compression stroke with a compression tester like my haynes manual says I do. He said to just make sure the notches line up and are marked on the cam and crank sprockets before I remove the timing belt. Then just be carefull not to turn the shafts during the seal replacement. I couldn't get a hold of my friends chain wrench to remove the crank pully so i'll have to finish tomorrow.
I broke a bolt on my radiator fan

I even srayed it with pb blast before I tried to remove it. I don't know how to get it out without taking out the radiator (which I really don't want to do) Any ideas? It's on the bottom so maybe I can get away without it?
Almost every time I work on my car I break a bolt and I go to great lengths not to. Do you all have the same problem?

sullione · Post by **sullione** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:07 am

Sorry for not being clear before but what I meant is I took off the timing belt and all. I just did what your mechanic told you to do, just make sure nothing moves i.e. the cam or crankshafts and you shouldn't have any problems. I had to replace the crank pulley and timing belt because when I changed the timing belt the first time, the book told me the wrong values and it was under-torqued. I hope this helps you out. Keep in mind that I'm no mechanic and I only used a Haynes manual to fix my car.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:14 am

Aaahhh! I shoulda read this earlier...

Your mechanic is right, pretty much. Guess what? When all your marks are pointing up, that is TDC for the #1 cylinder.

However, do NOT be hasty in reinstalling the timing belt. Be absolutely sure the marks line up perfectly after tension has been put on the belt. If not, take the belt off completely and try again. I did this 5 times, and after getting very frustrated, I got it. The engine runs flawlessly...

Use a Haynes manual to get an idea of how the marks line up....

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:32 pm

Thanks guys, I have the haynes manual and I feel comfortable with all the above. I was just nervous about not using th compression tester on #1 cylinder. I got the chain wrench so off I go!

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:21 pm

Ok I have two more questions. 1 what is the best way to take of the cam sprockets? 2 how carefull do I have to be removing the seals? I'm having trouble getting the crank seal out. I don't have a seal puller.

sullione · Post by **sullione** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:22 pm

Glad my two cents could help you out... assuming it did. By the way, it's easier than you think and you get that sense of accomplishment when you're done. Just make sure your torque the crank pulley bolt to at least 100 ft lbs. Correct me if I'm wrong about this torque value guys.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 8:04 pm

I never TDC'd the thing when I did mine. Someone once told me engines always stop at TDC on cyl #1. I don't buy that, but I used it as my excuse when I was too lazy to go inside and get the compression tester and it worked out for me. So... The way I checked the belt tension was by using a hexagonal crow bar on the tensioner pulley to pre-load the belt as it would be with the tensioner in place and checked to see how much the tensioned timing belt moved the cam pulley marks from where they were supposed to be. I then just adjusted the belt the difference and installed the hydraulic tensioner.

I found Craftsman strap wrenches to be amazingly strong when removing and reinstalling the crank pulley.

My fans are not attached at the bottom of the radiator as I could only salvage four of the eight bolts. I've had no problem - not even noise from them banging. I now routinely spray engine compartment bolts with WD-40.

For my own security, I also always replace the water pump at the same time, but that's a habit from less reliable cars.

Steve

sullione · Post by **sullione** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:40 pm

I, too, replaced the water pump and thermostat when I changed my timing belt at the suggestion of a friend. He told me it was for the better. Hopefully I won't have to do this job again for a while.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:47 pm

I didn't take the cam sprockets off, but I heard the best way to do it is actually to set up the engine to stay still, as you did to get the crank pulley bolt loose, and with the timing belt still on, loosen the cam sprocket nuts.

I'm spoiled with keeping the engine still though. I have an MT

I got the crank seal out with a good old flathead screwdriver. But if you are to do so, DO NOT damage the oil pump/seal surface, same with cam seals. It's aluminum, so it's easily damaged. I was careful, and that's why it was so successful...

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:37 am

evolutionmovement wrote:I now routinely spray engine compartment bolts with WD-40.

Just a quick note -- If you do this, be sure to reduce the torque specifications for these bolts. Also, anti-sieze compound may be preferable, since it's meant for this purpose specifically.

And whether or not you apply lubricant (I usually don't), be sure to first clean out the internal and external threads with a wire brush and/or a tap and die, and maybe some alcohol or brake cleaner as well.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:29 am

I see what you're saying about the torque specs, but what I meant was that I spray stuff while it's in place to keep rust from developing on the surface. Makes it easier to remove them when I need to and less likely to strip, too. Damn New England weather keeps trying to kill my cars. It already claimed 3, but I think I may have it beat with this one thanks to Subaru's much improved galvanization processes and lots of money.

Steve

legacy92ej22t · Post by **legacy92ej22t** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:47 am

Jobs done and it was interesting. Couldn't get the seals out or the cam sprockets off so a couple friends with better tools came over and helped me. We used a portable air compressor for a small air drill ( couldn't fit a hand drill in there) and drilled into the seals and used screws to pull them out. They had a strap wrench so a bloody knuckle and a few bent radiator fins later we got the cam sprockets off. When I got the timing belt cover off I could only make out 1 line on the old belt and it was 1 tooth off the timing mark! So I don't know if my timing was off or not but my car seems to run better now. I know I should have done the water pump and was planning to but this project was on hold for like 4 months and I never could round up the cash for it. It was getting to the point where I wasn't going to be able to drive my car ( puddles of oil under the car every day) so I just went for it. The good news is there was no signs of seepage on the water pump, so my fingers are crossed that it doesn't come back to haunt me. 2nd day and not a spot of oil under the car

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:59 pm

Ugh... Although you saw no water leaking from the pump, that's not their primary failure...

The bearings in the pump will eventually wear out and cause freeplay in the shaft and start wiggling, making a knocking sound not unlike that of a bottom-end sound

I know this happened to me, my face was ashen when I heard the sound as I thought I had spun a rod bearing or something

...

It will also squeal under a load, sounding similar to a drivebelt slipping...

Hopefully you water pump should hold out a little while longer, so you won't have to go right back in and change it...

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:34 am

Old water pumps can also just fail to pump enough water. The continuous swirling actually slowly shears the vanes off very very slowly. After 16 years my old Mercedes 300D's original water pump failed this way.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:55 pm

I had a water pump fail a week before I was going to change it. The pulley sheared right off. It may have been seeping antifreeze prior to that, but I never saw it and there was no sound - the car just got hot and I pulled it over. Only time she's ever left me stranded, but I was close to home, had my bike in the back, and it was nice out, so she did her best.

I love Subarus because they always send the flat beds instead of the tow trucks when they assume they're all 4wd. I hate the tow trucks as they make me nervous.

Steve

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:37 pm

My first 87 GL had a similar problem. When I pulled over after noticing it was overheating I noticed that the shaft came right out of the waterpump and the fan blades had chewed up the radiator!

Mike

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Need advice quick as I'm doing it right now

Need advice quick as I'm doing it right now