Frankenstein 2.4 Motor and Turbo Build Underway

MY99 2.5GT · Post by **MY99 2.5GT** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:55 pm

Hello,

Its been a while since Ive posted and Ive made a lot of progress in that time as well.

My 99 Legacy GT is getting a makover from the inside out, mostly with used parts to boot:) The wimpy 2.5 open deck shortblock is being swapped out for a closed deck 2.2 that is being bored out .020" over. I am using Wiseco Forged Pistons which are an on the shelf item and are specifically made for 2.2 blocks with Phase I 2.5 crank and Phase I 2.5 Rods. I found a set of used but in great shape Pauter Phase I 2.5 rods and will be using the Phase I 2.5 crank from my GT motor.

The shortblock has been fully disassembled and is at Justice Racing Engines (Engine Builder for Paul Efantis' 1500hp NHRA Supra-Type his name into Google). Its being cleaned up, measured, and bored. After everything is proper they will order bearings and give it back to me for re-assembly.

I also bought a used Vishnu turbo kit from Ebay for $1500. The guy that had it on his RS made 300whp at 13psi. I can't wait to get my motor together and see what it will do around 15 to 18. Its a standard flanged turbo so I plan to swap it for a GT35r and raise the pressure 24-26 once the STI 6-speed is in. It didn't include the TEC-II that originally came with the kit but no big deal since I can't go stand alone for emmissions reasons. I will be using the Greddy Emanage Ultimate.

On a side note I found a set of DOHC TWE Stage III heads for $700!!! One of the cam thrusts is cracked but I think I can salvage the fat 249/241 cams and shim under bucket kit to go in my stock DOHC heads and have them ported and polished.

I'm pretty excited about all of this and thought I'd share it:)

Brad

MY99 2.5GT · Post by **MY99 2.5GT** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:57 pm

Oh yeah I had a 91 Legacy Turbo 5spd parts car with the 3.90 lsd rear that I didn't end up using. Its now for sale in the Parts Shed.

IronMonkeyL255 · Post by **IronMonkeyL255** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:34 pm

Sounds like this will be a beast. Keep us updated.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:36 pm

Cool

. Is Justice local?

MY99 2.5GT · Post by **MY99 2.5GT** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:42 pm

Yes. Justice Racing Engines is in Frederick, MD and came highly recomended from Dan at MACH V.

Check out their website:

http://www.justiceracingengines.com/

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Wed May 03, 2006 6:59 am

How well does the Emanage Ultimate work with all the sensors? I've been looking at the Link Plus G2 for my setup, but I know the Ultimate can do alot. My main thing is having adjustable resolution on the maps. I like how the Greddy unit can eliminate the MAF.

Side note; I'm "Aspiring" now? WTF?

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:23 am

93forestpearl wrote:How well does the Emanage Ultimate work with all the sensors? I've been looking at the Link Plus G2 for my setup, but I know the Ultimate can do alot. My main thing is having adjustable resolution on the maps. I like how the Greddy unit can eliminate the MAF.

Side note; I'm "Aspiring" now? WTF?

shit, you can remove the MAF with a Perfect Power...

MY99 2.5GT · Post by **MY99 2.5GT** » Wed May 03, 2006 1:38 pm

Apparently the Ultimate works very well with our subarus. I have talked with a few folks who were using other piggy backs who had a lot of trouble adjusting idle with injectors above 500cc. I know of two that were using the PP SMT6 who switched to Ultimates and it instantly cured the problem.

I was a big fan of the SMT6 on paper but then people started using them.

Ive thought about eliminating the MAF but turned my thinking around once realizing how much more accurate it is to tune with a Wide Band and MAF.

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Wed May 03, 2006 3:37 pm

Yes, it is infinitely more accurate to tune with wideband and a maf.

For MAP, you mathematically calculate VE, and hope that it's right.

I've looked at most of the systems out there, and I'm just going to end up using a utec. I'll use one on the Legacy, and if I decide to turbo my Forester, I'll use one on it too.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:39 pm

BAC5.2 wrote:Yes, it is infinitely more accurate to tune with wideband and a maf.

For MAP, you mathematically calculate VE, and hope that it's right.

Not quite. You calculate what your AFR should be, and then run it in that cell and adjust your VE to be at that AFR. Thats how you get your VE table to be right on. It also depends on if your EM has a separate VE table, or just a main fuel table. But anyways, once you've built up a few islands, you can see how the map is gonna play out. Of course one should check to make shure in areas that you didn't actually run in.

I guess I'm a believer that any given system is only as accurate as the person tuning it. A MAF system can run as bad or worse than a speed density system, and vice versa. Its all about patience.

555BCTurbo · Post by **555BCTurbo** » Thu May 04, 2006 12:01 am

93forestpearl wrote:
BAC5.2 wrote:Yes, it is infinitely more accurate to tune with wideband and a maf.

For MAP, you mathematically calculate VE, and hope that it's right.

Not quite. You calculate what your AFR should be, and then run it in that cell and adjust your VE to be at that AFR. Thats how you get your VE table to be right on. It also depends on if your EM has a separate VE table, or just a main fuel table. But anyways, once you've built up a few islands, you can see how the map is gonna play out. Of course one should check to make shure in areas that you didn't actually run in.

I guess I'm a believer that any given system is only as accurate as the person tuning it. A MAF system can run as bad or worse than a speed density system, and vice versa. Its all about patience.

My Uncle (owns Precision Engineering in Auckland NZ)and I are definite proponents of the Speed Density setups...

His 600hp EJ20G was tuned on Autronic with no MAF...the motor now resides in a gutted 2 door Impreza Rallycar

not8player · Post by **not8player** » Thu May 04, 2006 10:18 pm

I am in the process of doing the same (similar) build as Brad.
at the moment I am just getting the parts together.
What are the connecting rod options out there and prices?
So far what I have found

1) PAUTER SUB-230-510-1315F list $784
(http://www.pauter.com/subaru.htm)

2) No name shot peened 4340 H Bean Rods $500
(http://www.outbackmotors.com/subaru_connecting_rods.htm)

Does anyone know of other option at a reasonable price?

What is the upper limit HP for the stock (phase 1 2.5 DOHC) connecting rod? At what HP/torque/RPM do they become the week link?

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:22 am

Eagle rods: < $350

Since I have no intensions of trying make rediculous HP like 600+, I feel these fit the bill fine, just fine.

not8player · Post by **not8player** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:20 am

Dan,
from eagel rods catalog they only list one subaru application
(http://www.eaglerod.com/2006%20Eagle%20Catalog.pdf)
Subaru EJ18/20/22 (Imprezza WRX) - 5/16" ARP 2000 Bolts
C-C Length: 5.137"
Gram Weight: 490
Code: CRS5137S3D
Does eagle make a rod for the ej25 that is not listed in there catalog?

MY99 2.5GT · Post by **MY99 2.5GT** » Fri May 05, 2006 2:41 pm

I already PMed this to not8player but figured I'd post it here for general information.

I looked all over the place and talked with a half dozen vendors that could get me their custom design EJ25 Phase I Forged rods but they all equaled out to be almost the price or way more then what Pauter Rods were. The round about going rate for these custom rods were around $1100.

I found the same deal with Pistons. 3 or 4 different places selling their custom designed setup with Manley, Crower, JE, etc, etc, .... Then I stumbled onto Wiseco's site and found that in their parts list they produce a Forged Piston with valve reliefs and skirts specifically designed for use with EJ22t bottom end and EJ25 DOHC heads.

In my opinion and from my experience if a manufacturer themselves have their product in stock and sitting on the shelves of numerous performance shops its probably a safer bet then to go with some custom setup a single shop or a few shops have tested. Just remember that "custom" doesn't always mean "better". Its most likely more expensive because "xyz tuning" has only ordered 20 sets of their "custom" setups.

Anyway my rant is over:)

When it all comes down to it I can't really say anything until my setup is assembled, in the car, tuned and running for 30k miles making 500hp ;b

Brad

BAC5.2 · Post by **BAC5.2** » Fri May 05, 2006 3:23 pm

Nick - Yes, MAP can make lots of power. The Element Tuning Time Attack car made 650whp (nitrous bottle closed) using MAP.

We have lots of daily driven cars making 500 wheel, using a MAF. We even have a car that will be making a LOT more than 500 wheel, and still use a MAF.

There ARE pro's and cons to each. Personally, while I don't like it, MAF is much better suited to a street-driven car. Mainly because I start my car in the winter too.

Doesn't VE change with engine temperature also? So cold-starting and hot-running are different?

But MAP makes plumbing pretty easy, and I can't argue with that.

Note that I don't HATE MAP setups, I just favor other methods. If MAP behaved like MAF, I'd be all over it.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:27 pm

VE does change with temperature. But there usually is an intake air temp sensor with a correction table, and the Link system I'm looking at has a built-in barometric pressure sensor to compensate for that as well. It also has cranking, cold start, and warm-up enrichments.

I'll agree that MAF and speed density have their plusses and minuses. If one takes the time with a speed density system, it should be able to run as well as a MAF system. Its just alot more work to get speed density to work right under all conditions, as you cannot tune for certain conditions untill they arise, like starting when its 20 below zero.

About the rods. I guess I should have read the post a little more closely. I missed the part about it being a stroker.

MY99 2.5GT · Post by **MY99 2.5GT** » Wed May 17, 2006 2:25 pm

Alright I finally have all of the turbo parts in from the Vishnu kit.

As well i was able to get the TWE Stage 3 DOHC heads.

I'll let everyone know how its coming a little later.

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Frankenstein 2.4 Motor and Turbo Build Underway

Frankenstein 2.4 Motor and Turbo Build Underway