Allright folks, I need some advice in this realm.

[scuzzy]

I havn't focused on suspension much, like I need to.

I ran my first autocross today at TRSCCA, Nashville SuperSpeedway. it was a big event, there was probably 100 people there. got there at 9:30AM and it wasn't done with till 5:30PM. I had a great time.

my best time of the day was ~77, my worst time was 91+DNF (I had two DNF's, one that almost everyone had, which was a chicago box that was well placed and easily missed (ran an 87) - the second, the 91 was because of a noob mistake, a redflag (I slowed down for to see what the guy was saying) and realized I had my hand on the a-pillar holding on.

I drove the fucking piss out of my car, and people were telling me I was driving the hell out of it and it was fun to watch. The first two heats I did on low tire pressure (oops, noob mistake) and was driving on the sidewalls. The rest I jacked the pressure up to 45 in the front - and left it at 32 in the rear. which makes for some REALLY good spinouts when you get on the brake and have to swing around a tight corner.


I just had a guy on IRC argue with me about tire pressures and oversteer. Saying that my increased pressure in the front - and stock in the rear, had zero to do with my front tire pressures, and just my driving style.

every article I've read about it, and even the guy who suggested I try it, told me to increase tire pressure in the front to induce oversteer. He says it induces understeer. I drove on the track, I beg to differ.

Anyone elses comments on the subject?


Anyway, another point I need to make is that I need some good reccomendations - as in part numbers and whatnot, I need to get which will fit my 91 Legacy L Wagon to improve my suspension. Bushings, Springs, struts, swaybars. I need feedback people. I'm hooked into autocross, next time I go out I want to break the 70 barrier, or get really close.

I've looked at whiteline products, but I don't know what I should get, or what properly works.

thanks all.

[THAWA]

Get a tribeca front sway bar and see if it fits. It's like 60 bucks from the dealer and 25mm. I believe front sway bars are free in SCCA rules. Do you want to stay in any particular class? If that's the case, look at the rules, and see what all you can do in that class.

Also, that tire pressure bit is only partly true. If you increase the tire pressure, and that causes the front tires to have more grip then yes it will lessen understeer, making oversteer easier. However, if you increase the pressure too much and lower the grip then you will induce more understeer, and make oversteering harder.

[scuzzy]

Get a tribeca front sway bar and see if it fits. It's like 60 bucks from the dealer and 25mm. I believe front sway bars are free in SCCA rules. Do you want to stay in any particular class? If that's the case, look at the rules, and see what all you can do in that class.

Also, that tire pressure bit is only partly true. If you increase the tire pressure, and that causes the front tires to have more grip then yes it will lessen understeer, making oversteer easier. However, if you increase the pressure too much and lower the grip then you will induce more understeer, and make oversteering harder.

Right well I knew the understeer/oversteer bit was to a point, but I was talking about on stock pressures with tires that had significant sidewall.

that was ny experience.

anyway, I'm in SM. so it's pretty much anything goes.

[BAC5.2]

Generally, upping tire pressures in the front promotes oversteer. Upping rear tire pressure promotes understeer. All of that goes out the window when brakes or throttle are involved, as those two variables can make a car handle however the operator would like. Given enough experience and skill, and the proper setup, the driver can get the car to behave anyway they want.

Larger FSB's will increase understeer. Lots of auto-X guys actually kind of like that, because they can just crank the wheel and be very liberal with the throttle and brake to help rotation. Does it make you faster? I'm sure you could be fast with that setup, but I'm thinking it would take a lot more to be fast with that setup. I'd imagine the mantra with a big front bar is, "push in, gas out". That is, brakes in the straight, crank wheel, lift throttle to tighten up circle, floor it at the apex, keep wheel turned while exiting the turn. With a more tail happy car, "dive in, slide out". That is, brake on the straight, turn-in, modulate gas, hit it at the apex, countersteer out.

Personally, tail happy is a bit more my style. On tight, tight, situations, you exit turn 1 with your nose pointed right where you need to turn-in on turn 2. For a under-steer-er, your nose is pointed at the apex of turn 2, and you must correct which usually means lifting the throttle.

But it's all about personal setup. No one can tell you that. You go with whatever setup you are comfortable pushing the envelope with.

[THAWA]

Ah, engine swap, yes that's SM.

Slap on a VF10 with an AWIC.

Go with a tribeca front bar if it'll fit, or a strano(more expensive but you can get a larger one). Because of our crappy suspension setup the larger the front bar the better. It actually promotes oversteer the larger you go. That is until you go past the limit, then you get understeer.

Either find first gen aluminum arms, or convert to Second/third gen crossmember/arms. The latter is more adviseable because it has multiple advantages. The steering rack mounting points changed slightly giving less bumpsteer than a first gen crossmember. An 04+STi, 05+ impreza crossmember has added bracing. The same bracing was first used on the 02 B4 and it increased lateral stiffness by 500%, and longitudinal stiffness by 50%. Also, the control arms are a lot easier and cheaper to find. They make one HELL of a difference too.

Go to the JY, find a loyale based car with a Clutch based LSD, and convert it to 4.111, slap it in your car.

Struts/springs, I don't really know, but probably the best way to do this would be koni inserts with Ground Control springs. Get a rate and height that suits you, and adjust it. Try not to lower the car too much, or upset the balance as both are bad.

Go with some super sticky R-compounds or if you want to cheap out hankook RS-2's are the new "it". Minimum of 225 width I'd say.

Replace every bushing you can find with either pillowball (I think SM allows this), hardened rubber, or polyurethane. I personally don't care for poly myself, but they're good bushings.

Find as many braces as you can, and throw them on.

Ask as many people as you can for more info at Auto-X's as the driver is much more important than any of the parts of the car. Seat time is more valuable than car parts. Lurk in this forum: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22 There's a lot of good info there, without the usual nabisco idiocy.

[206er]

are you on RE92's? Ive heard of people running as much as 50psi for autocross due to how terrible the sidewalls are.

[THAWA]

Oh, and try to get as much negative camber and positive caster up front as you can. Not too much caster though, as it does funky things with bumpsteer.

[scuzzy]

are you on RE92's? Ive heard of people running as much as 50psi for autocross due to how terrible the sidewalls are.

no, no re-92's. walmart tires (hey! they were FREE! brand new, can't complain)


I plan on changing tires, something with a smaller sidewall. if I could get ahold of some legacy turbo rims, WRX wheels or 2.5RS wheels cheap, I'd jump on that. and by cheap I mean $200 a set or less.

[THAWA]

Definately find a set of WRX wheels, then get WRX front brakes.

What is your budget?

[scuzzy]

Definately find a set of WRX wheels, then get WRX front brakes.

What is your budget?

$400 a month, roughly.

[scuzzy]

the 26mm tribeca bar is a pretty big bar. I'd hate to buy one and get the car apart to see if it fits, only to realize it doesn't.

IE: I want to limit how much I go about experimenting with major components.

I like the idea of a new front crossmember - What do you think is a good price for a take-off of a WRX or something? I assume it uses the similar turbo setup as the TLeg's do - and will clear the crossmember with the uppipe (no need for exhaust fabrication)


The only thing that concerns me mainly is "will it fit" and price. I'm not penny pinching, but I don't need brand name/new stuff either. The car is old, she's still got alot left in her, but at some point you're just polishing a turd.

I've been looking at whiteline control springs. I can get a set for the wagon at about $250 - I'd love to find some new, but SS and Wagon springs don't usually cross over (I've heard stories of the car pointing towards the sky)

Struts are the big thing. While I've got the struts out for a spring swap, I want to go ahead and replace the springs too. What is this about cutting the old strut apart and using Koni inserts? I've priced them new, they're not exactly cheap. It may end up being a better idea that I get my hands on WRX struts, but again i'm not sure what I'll need for those to work on my car. I'm assuming tophats and that's about it.

Also, heh, if I get the whiteline springs for my car, and the WRX struts off a WRX (obviously), am I looking at screwing up how much the car has dropped? the whiteline control springs drop the car about 1" Also, will those springs even work in the WRX struts...

[THAWA]

Gah, I haven't been paying attention. A tribeca bar wont fit a turbo crossmember.

Now that I think about it, maybe the crossmember isn't the best way to start. You should definately look into the wheels and tires first.

I'm not a big fan of whiteline springs, but that's just me. I think if you want to make your money last, you should spend the money on a set of 04 STi struts/springs. They're quite great, but they have some drawbacks, like overdamped-ness, lower the car quite a bit, clunk after a while. You could probably pick up a set for $250.

[scuzzy]

I'm going to start with the crossmember because of the deteriorating shape of my exhaust - I need to get the turbo exhaust and uppipe on asap.

What is the difficulty involved in changing the crossmember? I know the swaybar, steering rack, and LCA's bolt onto it (as well as the motor) anything else anyone can think of right now?

You've got to support the engine clearly - which can be done for about $30 a day or something (rent a cherry picker)

All that I can think I'll need is:
Crossmember and turboback exhaust. I would prefer something larger than the stock legacy turbo exhaust - but I need something that'll work on my wagon. stock WRX exhaust maybe? can it be had for cheap maybe?

I've got in the vicinity of $350 to get this done on the start of June - perhaps more.

Here's another question. If I use a crossmember from say, an 03 WRX - I need the LCA's off the WRX for that to work as well, right? What about the steering rack, can I use my stock steering rack - or do I need to change over? this plays a big role, heh.

[Legacy777]

If you use a WRX front crossmember, yes you will need th LCA's, but they need to be wagon LCA's. The sedans are wider, which will also may require a WRX steering rack, or backing off the tie rod ends a little.

[gt2.5turbo]

Ill have Kyb agx's and groundcontrols with rates that should be pretty good for auto crossing on this weekend
I've already planned the canyon trip to test them out, ill let ya know how that goes

everything together ran me 750 new to my door but i got a killer deal on a few of the items

[dzx]

Go to the JY, find a loyale based car with a Clutch based LSD, and convert it to 4.111, slap it in your car.

what is the ratio that it has to begin with?

[All_talk]

Go to the JY, find a loyale based car with a Clutch based LSD, and convert it to 4.111, slap it in your car.

what is the ratio that it has to begin with?

About the only place you're going to find the clutch type LSD R160 rear diff is out of the '85 - '89 RX turbo, tho there are rumored to be a few GL-10 Turbos with them. All EA82T cars have 3.70 gears, I know the 3.90 gears will fit the carrier and I think the 4.11s will too. Be sure to check/set the gear lash after the swap or you will eat up the gear set in no time.

Gary