Offroading is fun... but you need to be careful

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:23 pm

Spent a good chunk of last night tearing it up on some logging roads up in the hills. Lots of sideways and donut action going on. I ended up nearly going into a rock embankment after my steering went all mushy. Turns out Id overheated my powersteering pump to the point where fluid was escaping out of the cap

Needless to say, I called it a night after that

But damn did we have some fun

Me + 2 RS coupes

Hopefully Ill get some videos up for you

0perose · Post by **0perose** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:36 pm

yes, vids please!!

I have some videos of me in the woods during the winter on nnyoffroad.com if you wanna check them out

scuzzy · Post by **scuzzy** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:42 pm

Yeah our power steering pumps tend to overheat and boil fluid.

I wonder why that is.

Moreover, power steering pump fluid cooler?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:02 pm

Probably because we use dexron instead of PS fluid for some reason

Subtle · Post by **Subtle** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:14 pm

In Southern British Columbia there two kinds of logging roads.

Those that are no longer in use and those that are in use.

On the latter, there are ordinary gravel roads and then there are the big, straight wide ones with huge loggin trucks thundering along.

On a privately operated road the owners can put up any sign they want.

For example, as one side road crosses one of the big ones the stop sign also points out "It takes 4 seconds for one of our rigs to go through this intersection----Whether You Are In It Or Not".

bmxkelowna · Post by **bmxkelowna** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:42 pm

Splinter wrote:Turns out Id overheated my powersteering pump to the point where fluid was escaping out of the cap

ugh, same thing happened to me yesterday at the autox
there has to be some thing we can do about it

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:48 pm

Looking forward to the pictures, Splinter!

bmxkelowna - Not hold it at the lock for more than a couple of seconds? The manual says not to do it, and for good reason -- my friend had an engine bay fire in his WRX because he didn't follow that rule.

A power steering cooler is a cool idea, and would be easy enough to plumb, but I think you would need a thermostat in it because cold power steering fluid is bad.

I don't see how using ATF instead of whatever "power steering fluid" would make the system more prone to overheating. ATF is a good hydraulic fluid, isn't it?

bmxkelowna · Post by **bmxkelowna** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:12 pm

vrg3 wrote:bmxkelowna - Not hold it at the lock for more than a couple of seconds? The manual says not to do it, and for good reason -- my friend had an engine bay fire in his WRX because he didn't follow that rule.

hmm, i dont think its from holding at full lock because it was a quick couse and i was never in a corner for even a second. and im pretty sure it happened when i was going though the slolum and had to counter steer a few times as the back end tryed to come around.

206er · Post by **206er** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:18 pm

on my pump cap at least, it says to use dexron ATF.
I too went offroading the other day. rutted ass road, had to straddle the ruts and nearly got stuck but I would back out an gas it through.

man, I want an ea81 wagon to lift and beat up. that or a samurai or toyota. you guys should see some of the insane rock crawlers driving around here- tacoma on full width dana 60's all tubed out, some super nice TJ's, some crazy cut up XJ's, YJ's with no fenders and no straight sheetmetal, etc.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:26 pm

bmxkelowna - Oh. Huh. I did not know that was a problem.

Then maybe we should be looking into appropriate thermostats. I wonder what the ideal temperature for the fluid is. It seems likely to me that around 200 degrees Fahrenheit would do it, since that's where it works best in automatic transmissions.

Hm! Maybe 5MT owners would benefit from swaps to 4EAT radiators; the ATF cooler could be used for power steering fluid instead!

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:28 pm

vrg3 wrote:Hm! Maybe 5MT owners would benefit from swaps to 4EAT radiators; the ATF cooler could be used for power steering fluid instead!

Thats not a bad idea...

Ive got a 4EAT rad in mine

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:33 pm

Try it! Just get a cheap oil temperature gauge to monitor how well it's doing.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:35 pm

Or in my case, ditch the power steering period.

206er · Post by **206er** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:35 pm

so you think that the power steering is really operating above coolant temps?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:41 pm

I don't know what kind of temperatures it normally operates at, but I'm sure it has to get higher than 200 degrees before it overcomes the seal in the cap, or before it causes an engine bay fire.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:42 pm

206er wrote:so you think that the power steering is really operating above coolant temps?

I'll let you guys know in a few days

What kind of pressure does PS fluid run at? What sort of hose should I use to plumb this?

206er · Post by **206er** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:01 pm

power steering hose

but seriously, you should be able to get them made at a tubes &hoses shop. I imagine there should be a few in such a highly populated area as yours.
the radiator cooler would have the added benefit of increasing the capacity of the power steering by a good bit. hell, maybe even throw a reservoir in for good measure.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:04 pm

Upwards of 1000 psi on the high-pressure side, if I remember right. I would plumb the cooler on the return side, though. It'd be pretty easy, because there's already a little hose there. You could remove it and connect the cooler in its place.

Actually, if you go to a good auto parts store and ask for a replacement for that piece of hose, they might be able to give you a much longer length of it. I bought a replacement for that little piece and the guy cut it off a 4-foot length he pulled out of a box.

You may need a pair of adapters; I don't remember for sure but I think the power steering hose might be around 5/16" while the ATF cooler fittings are for hose that's about 3/8".

thefultonhow · Post by **thefultonhow** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:22 am

I did an AutoX on Saturday and Sunday -- I did quite a few runs in quick succession on Saturday and didn't have any steering problems (besides spinning out b/c my rear tire pressures were too high, lol). Would having an NA car make it different? I also have a 5MT if that matters.

EDIT: I should probably add it was over 100 both days...

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:56 am

I don't see why the transmission or engine type would affect it significantly. It might make a slight difference because they affect the RPM the engine runs at.

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:39 am

I've only had a problem once when doing three fast side to side maneuvers in very quick succession. The steering got pretty heavy on the last rotation, but quickly recovered. That was about 4 yrs ago when the pump seemed to be going before it miraculously (Subarulously) healed itself and I haven't had any problems since.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:24 am

You guys need to replace your PS fluid. Run some good quality synthetic dextron III fluid.

A few quick turns should not turn the steering to mush and such.

Adding all that hose to run to the radiator's ATF line is a decent amount of hose IMO, and could significantly increase the back pressure the rack sees, and cause some issues with seals, and/or the rack's performance.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:59 am

I dont have the vid of my car yet, but here's RS25s

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JpoJfkIMwbo

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Offroading is fun... but you need to be careful

Offroading is fun... but you need to be careful

Re: Offroading is fun... but you need to be careful