Reliability curve: What '99 Legacy to buy for under $6000?

[wongstein]

Hi folks. I'm buying my first car, and I've seen a few Legacy wagons around that I really want. doesn't have to be Outback, unless someone here tells me they're more reliable. I'm pretty sure that I'll find a good deal on a 1998-2001 model. Here's the crux of my conundrum:

I think I can find a nice 1999 wagon with aboot 80,000 miles on it for under $7000 in great condition, including nice tires etc. Or, I can find one from the same year with 135,000 miles on it for around $4000, also in great shape. Is it worth paying almost double for the less-used car?

How long will most of these cars run before needing major service (beyond regular belts and fluids)? Interestingly, I live in Canada, and people don't want to buy a car with over 200,000km because it seems like a lot, and I think that's why the price falls. That's only 125,000 miles, and I've been told that trouble-free performance can be expected up to 200,000 miles. Agree?

Is it true that the 2.2 is more reliable? Or is it that less power will put less wear on the suspension, axle, radiator, exaust etc?

Also, is there a way to obtain statistics on vehicle repairs?

Thanks very much for sharing your experience,
Anthony

[Legacy777]

The 2.2 is more reliable, and I personally really wouldn't be worried about buying a legacy with a 2.2 that has a 135,000 miles.

It'd be nice to know the maintenance history, and know that all the routine maintenance like t-belt, water pump, cam/crank seals, etc have been done.

If not....things can deteriorate, and you may have to spend a little money doing those things.

The normal maintenance items you see on these cars is (mileage interval) timing belt 60k, water pump 120k, front cam & crank oil seals, rear cam seal, and oil pump seal about every 100-150k miles.

[Adam West]

+1 for the 2.2 Wouldn't look at a 2.5 unless the headgasket has been done. The 2.5 SOHC or DOHC are good for many miles after redesigned headgasket is put in...Since I own both, the later platform (95 on...) IS more refined but there are not many mods for them, i.e. they are slow and built to stay that way...

[sketron13]

Yep, I got the single-port exhaust 2.2 from 98 w/ 216,000 miles. No problems at all. Changed the knock sensor and that's it besides regular maint. items, and she runs like a champ. I would recommend the 2.2 to anyone looking for a trouble-free (albeit slow) engine with decent gas mileage.

[AWD_addict]

It depends more on what work has been done to the car than how many miles are on it.

Mine had a lot of work done to it shortly before I bought it with 165K miles. I've had to do little besides routine maintenance, now it has 188K.

[wongstein]

Thanks for your responses. I'll be looking for service records for a high-mileage Legacy 2.2 with no neglect. I'm found a nice one with 118,000 miles for about CA$4700 (US$4150).

What's this about the head gasket? Does that need to be replaced at some point as preventative maintenance, or am I just looking for an engine that's never blown it's top?

About that regular maintenance:
> timing belt 60k, water pump 120k, front cam & crank oil seals, rear
> cam seal, and oil pump seal about every 100-150k miles

Some of these things look like expensive jobs that require the engine to be opened up. Does the engine have to come out for any of this stuff? If the car I buy is on the verge of needing some of these repairs, like the water pump (but not neglected), how much will it cost to get it all caught up with these things? (so I can haggle the price down with some ball-park repair cost estimates) Is the timing belt inside the engine, connecting the crank to the cam shafts, or is it one of the rubber belts outside the engine?

Thanks very much again,
Anthony

[Legacy777]

Head gaskets are not preventative maintenance.

The engine doesn't have to be removed to do the seals and other stuff.

I'm not sure how much all that stuff will cost, but if you do everything at once, it'll be cheaper since to get at the seals & oil pump, you have to take the timing belt off.

The timing belt is inside the plastic covers on the engine.

here's some pics

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... timingbelt

[quicklook]

it great you are thinking of a subaru. josh covered most of what i would say except that it is a car and things will wear out. no matter how careful you are, no matter what records the car has, unexpected things will crop up.

if you can work on your own vehicle that is a major plus. if you do, buy a good set of manuals from subaru if you can afford them.

whatever you want to pay, put aside at least 10% more to fix misc. things that will break or need to be repaired before they break. no one sells a car that runs perfectly, why would they?

last point is that no matter what you get, the knowledge you learn from this purchase will make you a better buyer next time.

good luck!

[wongstein]

Thanks folks. Your help is already making me a better buyer than most car shoppers out there. Used Subarus seem like the best deal out there (besides BMW motorcycles on eBay). People expect a lot more for their old Hondas and Toyotas, and they don't seem to be any better. Now, I'm leaning toward spending a little more for a Legacy with about 80,000 miles on it, so I can keep it for longer and know that it was properly maintained for that much more of its life.

Anthony

[wongstein]

By the way, Josh, thanks for the pics. I think I could do my own seals and timing belt. I've done head gaskets on a Honda Shadow and do most of the work on my BMW motorcycle, so as long as the engine doesn't have to come out, no problem. I'm inspired. I'll let you guys know which one I buy.

Cheers!
Anthony

[Legacy777]

You're welcome. I've got factory scans too. Check out the stuff you need to know forum for more info.

[wongstein]

Thanks again for all your help. I found a 1998 Brighton SE wagon (2.2L) with 100,000 miles for CA$5400, or aboot US$5000. It recently had the brakes done, and the dealer put on new tires. I talked the previous (only other) owner and got the skinny before buying it, and it sounds like it was well maintained under warranty. They did the timing belt without a labour charge it seems, just costed him the parts. I guess I've got some time before I have to takle the timing belt and seals. He said the engine used to knock, and they couldn't fix it, but before the warranty expired he got Subaru to change the small block, that was just 30K miles ago. I guess that means that the engine was rebuilt. I'll have to find out which gaskets were redone, and what seals were left in place, or reused.

Now to do the little repairs. I'll keep scouring this forum ... I've found great tips on plugs, headlamp wiring (would like brighter, 'cause I like to get far out of the city) and replacing all the ground wiring. If the wiring is as corroded as the engine area, then it's gonna need some TLC asap. As I find time to do fixes, I'll make sure to take pics and post back to the community.

Cheers,
Anthony

[wiscon_mark]

...just to add...the '99 2.2L was a phaseII motor, and it had a bit more kick than the PhaseI motor. The '99 L sedan is 2885 lbs, as well, quite light. Actually, the lightest 2nd gen with AWD.