Porting 2.2t heads

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:04 am

Yes I know, i may be the most stupid person on this board, but i am gonna throw money at the 2.2 heads. I took them to the machine shop tonight but didnt have much time to talk to the machinist. he wants all of the info i can throw at him. My question is what do i need to let him know? This guy has 30 years of experience with race motors big and small, but little with subarus. I checked and he does have a flow bench and all the neccesarty equip.

I am taking him:

Camshaft specs
Turbo charger specs
all engine specs from my block
he wants info on autox/ rallyx because thats what i plan to use this car for

What else? He is gonna clean and test the heads in about a week. and being he has another job, he will work on it off and on, so i will update this periodically.

I know i am gonna get some:

but i would kinda like to see what these heads can do. yes it would be easier to just get 2.5 heads, but I already have these, and the manifolds, injectors. etc and have the whole layout set up. i am looking forward to the results.

on a side note, i may be doing the heads on my new 2.5 impreza too (why not just got a second job) to go along with my new delta cams..

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:50 am

If your not looking for 350+hp I don't think there is anything wrong with EJ22T heads. Go for it. I haven't worked with EJ25 heads but they look like more of a pain to work on. Everyone I know who races (no matter what car/bike/cart) wants to keep everything as simple as possible so its easier to fix. Unless of course you have your own team of mechanics...then go difficult.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:37 pm

I am planning on using a vf-29, with all other mods I had on the car before, 3 inch catless coated exhaust. plus having the pistons and combustion chambers/valves/exhaust ports ceramic coated. It is going to be run by the Hydra EMS (i have finally decided) probably tuned by harvey at suparupair in boulder, co. Matt was saying I should get 350 out of the turbo/engine confguration. with my cams and the hydra, i want to see if i can get a little more so the port work shouldnt hurt anything

realfinn · Post by **realfinn** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:02 pm

http://www.scoobytuner.com/tuning/?tSfID1=4&tuningID=43

This might help with some turbo specs. I have had god responses from them. I have emailed to ask before. I notice that the VF29 isn't listed in the spec sheet but they may have something you can get off of them.

Someone might want to verify this one, but I found this a long time ago in a google search:

http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/ ... o-data.pdf

Check this post:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ice+manual

Not sure if there is any info that you need in the PDFs. I haven't really looked through them all yet.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:15 pm

great!! thank you

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:44 pm

VF-24= VF28= VF29 (but with Ti compressor wheel) All this infor appears in the turbo forum in the FAQ we put together...

As for porting the heads? I am glad to see someone step and do it. DZX has done it on his and is vey happy. But he doesn't have any flow numbers to publish. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get them up to at least stock Ej205 flow numbers...

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:56 pm

yeah i am diving in head first. and we will have some numbers to back it up. especially when people tell me they are "shit" this way i can have the better flow and keep my compression ratio up

i figure why not. i am singing stupid icecream songs at a cold stone just to pay for it... after i get off work from my normal job. 17 hours a day baby!!!!

thanks for the info matt. I did actually remember that

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:01 pm

Yeah, I don't see a reason not to if you're not looking for insane power. You get to keep the easier belt change SOHC head with all the turbo stuff already attached so no need to rig up something for oil/coolant. Plus it's more OEM, FWIW. I'd like to see how this turns out myself.

206er · Post by **206er** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:28 am

you might bring him a set of junk ej22e heads so he can cut them up to see how thick the water passages are. which he may or may not want to do.

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:02 am

oh good thinking 206er. i have a spare set of 22t heads that i messed with just a bit

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:11 pm

no numbers that anyone is going to give you or any number you give him is going to help him port those heads any different. Knowing that a water passage is dangerously close might help, but that's it. Someone that's ported those heads before could maybe give some pointers, but by far and large, head porting is trial and error. What turbo you run and what you want to do with it doesn't really mater. If it's the only set of heads you're going to port, then all you can do is some smoothing, seat to bowl matching and port matching. If you're going to get into reshaping the bowl or ports then you'll need a few heads to experiment with. Changing bolw or port shape can ruin a head in short order. If you're going for max flow you'll have to port a dozen heads before you get it right.

Now after your heads are ported and you know what they flow (with manifold/TB) then you engine size, turbo and intended use can be very helpful when deciding on a cam profile. Won't do shit for porting a head though.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:33 pm

bmxpunk wrote:oh good thinking 206er. i have a spare set of 22t heads that i messed with just a bit

I've got that head with the valves snapped off that you are welcome to take to him to cut up and play with. You know where to find me if you are down here and want to pick it up...

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:09 am

damn it matt!!!!

i was down there today. I went over and got some new seats from a guy on pirates and saw Paul about a grill and hood vents. But thanks, i might take you up on that.

Speaking of paul, he was trying to push me in the direction of 8.5:1 pistons when I throw everything back together.

I also took my crankshaft to The Engine Shop in Longmont. Seems like a cool guy and has really good pricing. will let you know in 3 weeks how it goes.

Now if the one guy would just bore the block

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:37 pm

Yep,
Warren knows his shit and he's really easy to work with. Why don't you have him bore your cylinders?

I would agree with Paul. I personally think the best compression ratio for a turbo is between 8.5 and 8.8:1 And since you are boring it out and getting new pistons, why not add a few points?

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:08 pm

8.8 huh? that is good to know. before i posted last night i was thinking 8.5-8.7 didnt know if that would be too high though. but that answers my question. that should help improve lowend response and off boost driviblity a bit correct. any down sides to it? With proper tuning i should still be able to run 14-16psi like i had originally wanted correct.

what all info did you take in with your heads matt? I am taing him the info delta sent me for my cams, cobbs head flow charts, then the basics about the motor. dont know what else he needs though

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:59 pm

My guy didn't ask for a bunch of info. He had worked closely with JC Sports a few years back to develop some ported heads and even still had the test heads there in his shop. He just took them and got down to business on them. The only thing he asked for was my camshaft lift...

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:19 am

well heard back today. my block will be done in a day or two (see it wen i believe it. and the guy wit hthe crank is already done. id didn't have to be machined!!!! I am picking it up next thursday( attn matt

-pcv stuff ) so we are going to start discussing pistons. the guy doing my block deals in ross and je mostly. wiesco is also an option but i would like some input on this

cheno SLO · Post by **cheno SLO** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:13 pm

link about porting boxer engine heads, it shows an alfa romeo boxer head but the principle is the same for the our engines.

http://www.alfaboxertuning.fws1.com/

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:43 pm

well i got a call the heads are cleaned but he says i need to replace all of the exhaust valves. trouble is i just got a 97 2.5 motor out of a legacy. that means dohc heads and intake for free!!!!! not really worth the money to just match the performance of the stock 2.5 heads.....

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:37 pm

I got my block back today. bored out ans sexy. Now just need to get the heads finished. and I need to order pistons.
I also had the bottom end all balanced.

I am thinking JE pistons with the compression raised to 8.7:1

Phase 1 dohc heads Ported ans polished. Any suggestions on what to do about cams ans valve train? I rememer reading the infamous write up on the 22 hybrid on this site that said the stock cams would work fine. What about valve train? is it worth upgrading? at what point does it need to be upgraded?

just need to find someone to buy my RS so i can afford the hydra and dome pistons....

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:21 pm

bmxpunk wrote:I got my block back today. bored out ans sexy. Now just need to get the heads finished. and I need to order pistons.
I also had the bottom end all balanced.

I am thinking JE pistons with the compression raised to 8.7:1

Phase 1 dohc heads Ported ans polished. Any suggestions on what to do about cams ans valve train? I rememer reading the infamous write up on the 22 hybrid on this site that said the stock cams would work fine. What about valve train? is it worth upgrading? at what point does it need to be upgraded?

just need to find someone to buy my RS so i can afford the hydra and dome pistons....

that should give you a pretty strong platform to build on. You might want to clean up the DOHC heads a little. I have a set here that clearly need some seat/bowl blending. I had to do a lot of work in that area on my 2.5 SOHC heads. The work will be well worth the flow gains. Just be carefull on the short side as it's a quick turn and material can come off fast.

also let me know what you end up paying for custom JEs. I think I'm going to go down this route soon, not sure how much boost the stockers are going to take in my rig.

dwreck30 · Post by **dwreck30** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:39 am

I also had the bottom end all balanced.

I though the bottom end waz pistons, rods, and crankshaft. Shouldn't these all be balanced together?

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:19 pm

dwreck30 wrote:
I also had the bottom end all balanced.
I though the bottom end waz pistons, rods, and crankshaft. Shouldn't these all be balanced together?

yup, don't know what he ballanced without pistons...

bmxpunk · Post by **bmxpunk** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:20 pm

crank and rods were balanced seperately so far, once i get pistons i will have everything checked together, as well as with the flywheel/clutch.

speaking of pistons, since i am going with custom ones anyway, is there anything you would change about the subarus stock piston design?

sammydafish · Post by **sammydafish** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:02 pm

bmxpunk wrote: speaking of pistons, since i am going with custom ones anyway, is there anything you would change about the subarus stock piston design?

you might want to try to match the quench area to the head since you're running different heads than the piston was designed for. Other than that, just figure whatever dish volume you need for your desired compression ratio. If you're running the stock rods and haven't decked the block, there's no need to change the deck height. Depending on the application, moving the top ring down often helps boosted cars from breaking rings, but most every JE piston already has the ringlands relocated.

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Porting 2.2t heads

Porting 2.2t heads