Installing the AWIC is a biatch!! (It's done)

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:08 am

Yeah the WRX TMIC or saab IC would probably be the easier route to go.

Thanks for the comments on the project!

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:37 pm

Ugh.. Im gonna be starting on this this weekend, hope I can put some of your troubles to good use in making it easier for me

Im still a little confused about how you did the main PCV vent hosing, it looks like my turbo (TD04, soon to be VF39) is going to almost completely block it off.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:10 am

I used a turbo legacy IAC valve hose to sneak it around to where it comes out by the intake manifold. I then routed it into the catch can.

There's some pics of it on this page
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... es/td05/04

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:38 am

Ohh... cool...

Maybe Ill use a 90' elbow and some generic oil hosing...

Heswe · Post by **Heswe** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:54 am

Why is everyone using water-air, standard JDM intercoolers? All the Subaru mechanics I have spoken to have said that they are rubbish, and with a turbo upgrade running any form of boost, they just arnt good enough. It cant be that hard to find a WRX Top Mount, as long as it isnt too new (The newer larger ones dont seem to fit, however the throttle body may be further back on EJ25's). They fit onto the same mounting points as the water-air conversion box, and they weigh a lot less (No extra radiator, coolant, pump, piping).

Seems so pointless:D

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:49 am

Top mount = heat soak. I bought a TMIC off ebay and decided not to use it for that reason. That and I am happier not cutting down my throttle body. When I get the time/money I'm going with a front mount. And a big assed deadbolt turbo.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:25 am

Top mounts are useless.

1. They get major heatsoak at the track
2. They, by very design, cannot reduce intake charge temps below the ambient air temperature
3. To provide adequate cooling in the space avalible, they need thin air channels with lots of fins, thus big intake restriction

Subaru mechanics are experts in their fields. Their field is not performance, it's repair. Air-air systems are simple, therefore they like them.

The stock AWIC setup is a little lacking for high-boost applications, but very few people here are using the stock setup. They're using the core with aftermarket pumps and radiators. Im using a VR6 coolant pump and a Civic radiator. Im pretty sure something that's designed to cool an entire engine is going to be able to handle the hot air coming from a turbo.

WRX topmounts are a dime a dozen. They're fine for moderate power goals in a daily driver. But for someone who frequents the track, or has higher gains in mind, frontmount is the only way to go. And thats all an AWIC system is. The only difference is that in the AWIC system, the heat exchange is done through the medium of water, instead of actually pushing the hot air through the front of the car. Less distance to travel means less lag, less pressure drop, and more fast. Plus with the AWIC system, there's nothing to stop you dropping a bag of ice into your reservoir on track days, and running stupidly cold charge temps. Colder air = denser air = more fast.

At least, thats how i understand it.

AWD_addict · Post by **AWD_addict** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:52 am

And water can transfer more energy than air because of greater heat capacity.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:19 am

Here's an idea = dry ice cooled. An old rodder trick is to lengthen your fuel hose/tubing, put it in a can, and fill it with ice water. Good for track use if it doesn't leak, but pretty useless or tedius for daily use. Or winter. But why not use dry ice or compressed co2 to cool the intake air? A bottle of co2 is cheapo and could get a lot of use per fill. You could put one big slab of dry ice on a TMIC.

Just a thought

AWD_addict · Post by **AWD_addict** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:56 am

I wonder if the dry ice idea would require some sort of vent for the gas it releases. It could build up too much pressure in a closed system.

A quick search confirms:
"When Dry Ice changes from a solid to a gas it absorbs heat and expands to over 800 times its original volume."

from http://www.dryiceinfo.com/

Someone has to try this!

Heswe · Post by **Heswe** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:13 pm

Eh, A fire extinguisher provides pretty good cooling for a Top Mount if its just doing a flying lap on a small-ish circit or a 1/4 mile. I think that water-air just adds too much weight and complexity. Front mounts are always the way to go if you can and are using a turbo big enough to justify it. If your so worried about heat soak, you can use rubber bushes on the mounts and use heat sheilding underneath the intercooler in a way that doesnt obstruct too much airflow.

If you want to try dry ice, pouring it into a radiator would be a seriously bad idea. You could just have a radiator submerged in liquid nitrogen (A air-air intercooler in liquid nitrogen is a better idea, saves on using strange liquids with low freezing points and usually a high viscousity), but containing the liquid nitrogen in a practical way might be more of an issue. You could just use a large freezer compressor blowing tons of cold air over a intercooler, but that would weigh a ton.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:44 pm

AWD_addict wrote:I wonder if the dry ice idea would require some sort of vent for the gas it releases. It could build up too much pressure in a closed system.

A quick search confirms:
"When Dry Ice changes from a solid to a gas it absorbs heat and expands to over 800 times its original volume."

from http://www.dryiceinfo.com/

Someone has to try this!

I believe Richard was meaning to just put the dry ice on top of the TMIC. This does work. Guys do this for dyno pulls to keep the intake air from heat soaking too bad.

You definitely don't want to put dry ice in an AWIC setup. You could put it over the radiator which would help cool the water, but not in it.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:50 am

Yes that's what i meant

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:28 am

It was cooler this morning....like 67 or so. I drove the car to the airport, and the intercooler was cool to touch, so it appears to be working at cooler temps. I still want a bigger radiator though.

not8player · Post by **not8player** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:02 pm

josh,
I was looking at this picture
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_6083.JPG
Why the hose clamps around the pump? You don't think the four bolts on the pump mount bracket would be secure enough?

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:05 pm

The base piece is plastic. There's no way that piece would secure the pump enough. I wasn't going to risk it, so I put those clamps on.

not8player · Post by **not8player** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:12 pm

Legacy777 wrote:The base piece is plastic. There's no way that piece would secure the pump enough. I wasn't going to risk it, so I put those clamps on.

I see. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't realize that the base piece was plastic. I haven't yet received my pump. thanks

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:47 pm

I've been losing water over time. I believe it's coming out through the cap...and should be going to an oveflow tank, but I had to remove the stock one located on the intercooler due to it hitting the clutch master cylinder.

I think I'm going to try and mount it behind the strut tower on the passenger side and run tubing over there. I need to do something.

Anyone else running an AWIC have similar experience with losing water from the system?

subytech · Post by **subytech** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:05 am

quick note on the expansion of dry ice, has no one herd of a dry ice bomb here?

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Installing the AWIC is a biatch!! (It's done)