I thought i had everything ran ok...
Whenever i turn the key to the 'on' position the 'IGN/ SRS' fuse blows (15A fuse in fuse box inside car).
I have tried removing several connectors, and have limited it down to the larger of the square connectors that are behind the battery. when it is disconnected the fuse does not blow, but of course the engine will not start.
MK
Problems wiring the swap.
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Problems wiring the swap.
1992 BC672 AWD 5MT
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vrg3
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Dang straight it won't start. :) That connector carries the injector and ignition signals!
And... it carries the positive voltage for the purge control solenoid and idle air control valve from the ignition relay.
You tapped off one of those last ones in order to power your newly-installed solenoids, right? The pressure exchange and boost control solenoids? The problem is then likely to be there somewhere... a short to ground or something.
You could first try unplugging those two solenoids. If the fuse doesn't blow then the problem lies in the solenoids. If it does, then it's likely the wiring.
How exactly did you do the additional wiring for the swap?
And... it carries the positive voltage for the purge control solenoid and idle air control valve from the ignition relay.
You tapped off one of those last ones in order to power your newly-installed solenoids, right? The pressure exchange and boost control solenoids? The problem is then likely to be there somewhere... a short to ground or something.
You could first try unplugging those two solenoids. If the fuse doesn't blow then the problem lies in the solenoids. If it does, then it's likely the wiring.
How exactly did you do the additional wiring for the swap?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Yeah, i realize it won't start w/o that connector 
The sensors and solenoids on the pass strut tower all have their own wires leading to the ECU. Their + power is tapped from a bundle of power lines that lead to the ECU. I have tried unplugging them and it has no effect on blowing the fuse
There aren't any other solenoids i missed right?
mk
The sensors and solenoids on the pass strut tower all have their own wires leading to the ECU. Their + power is tapped from a bundle of power lines that lead to the ECU. I have tried unplugging them and it has no effect on blowing the fuse
There aren't any other solenoids i missed right?
mk
1992 BC672 AWD 5MT
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vrg3
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Oh no!
That sucks, man...
On a N/A that 16-pin square connector you're talking about carries several of the ECU's grounds, so I guess by disconnecting that plug you effectively prevented the ECU from powering up at all.
I'm really sorry that your ECU is fried. That smoke (the smell is that of burning insulation on electronic components) is a pretty cut-and-dry sign.
What do you think you might do about it? The best thing would be to get another EJ22T ECU, but there may be other options, with varying cost and effort...
That sucks, man...
On a N/A that 16-pin square connector you're talking about carries several of the ECU's grounds, so I guess by disconnecting that plug you effectively prevented the ECU from powering up at all.
I'm really sorry that your ECU is fried. That smoke (the smell is that of burning insulation on electronic components) is a pretty cut-and-dry sign.
What do you think you might do about it? The best thing would be to get another EJ22T ECU, but there may be other options, with varying cost and effort...
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
vrg: yeah, i'm lining up some new ECU sources now, really pisses me off, but oh well. I know that some time i'll get it right..... (maybe 
)
The turbo engine has 3 connectors, 2 square, 1 round (w/ 7 or 8 wires), as far as I can tell the round one just has a bunch of gounds in it, but i am not 100% sure.
I am having a bitch of a time actually following what _exactly_ is on the fuse that keeps blowing, you have any wiring diagrams of the fuse box?
morg: lemme know what you find out
MK
)The turbo engine has 3 connectors, 2 square, 1 round (w/ 7 or 8 wires), as far as I can tell the round one just has a bunch of gounds in it, but i am not 100% sure.
I am having a bitch of a time actually following what _exactly_ is on the fuse that keeps blowing, you have any wiring diagrams of the fuse box?
morg: lemme know what you find out
MK
1992 BC672 AWD 5MT
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vrg3
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Oooh... woah... hold up a sec here....
Can you explain more about exactly what you did with your wiring? I was assuming you were using the complete stock non-turbo wiring harness plus a few additional wires for the three new devices.
Are you actually using some kind of mix of turbo and non-turbo wiring harnesses?
That's a potentially big problem. The 16-pin rectangular connector has different pin specifications on turbo models than non-turbo models. You are correct in noting that the 8-pin round connector is just carrying a bunch of grounds. On non-turbo models, those grounds are part of the 16-pin rectangular connector.
One of the differences is that some of the pins that the turbo model uses for +12v supplies carry grounds on the non-turbo model! If you tried to just plug in the 16-pin connector from the on-engine harness from the EJ22T into your non-turbo car's 16-pin connector, no wonder the fuse popped. The harness on the engine was connecting two wires together that were both supposed to be +12v, but the car was supplying +12v on one and ground on the other.
I think you should stick to your non-turbo wiring harness. Take it off of your old engine and put it on your new one. This harness goes from the 16-pin square connector to the injectors, ignition coil, IAC valve, purge control solenoid, and grounds.
If you really think it's too much of a pain to swap in the harness then you could try to rewire the connectors. Unfortunately I don't have any really good reliable info on the pinouts myself; even the factory service manual gives contradictory information. However, if you need it, I can trace wires out on my car (a 1993 turbo) and at least tell you what the pinouts are on turbo cars. It'll take a while and be a bit of a pain but will be useful information for all of us to have. I may be able to do the same on a non-turbo if I can get a friend to let me play with his.
Can you explain more about exactly what you did with your wiring? I was assuming you were using the complete stock non-turbo wiring harness plus a few additional wires for the three new devices.
Are you actually using some kind of mix of turbo and non-turbo wiring harnesses?
That's a potentially big problem. The 16-pin rectangular connector has different pin specifications on turbo models than non-turbo models. You are correct in noting that the 8-pin round connector is just carrying a bunch of grounds. On non-turbo models, those grounds are part of the 16-pin rectangular connector.
One of the differences is that some of the pins that the turbo model uses for +12v supplies carry grounds on the non-turbo model! If you tried to just plug in the 16-pin connector from the on-engine harness from the EJ22T into your non-turbo car's 16-pin connector, no wonder the fuse popped. The harness on the engine was connecting two wires together that were both supposed to be +12v, but the car was supplying +12v on one and ground on the other.
I think you should stick to your non-turbo wiring harness. Take it off of your old engine and put it on your new one. This harness goes from the 16-pin square connector to the injectors, ignition coil, IAC valve, purge control solenoid, and grounds.
If you really think it's too much of a pain to swap in the harness then you could try to rewire the connectors. Unfortunately I don't have any really good reliable info on the pinouts myself; even the factory service manual gives contradictory information. However, if you need it, I can trace wires out on my car (a 1993 turbo) and at least tell you what the pinouts are on turbo cars. It'll take a while and be a bit of a pain but will be useful information for all of us to have. I may be able to do the same on a non-turbo if I can get a friend to let me play with his.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
oopsie
Yeah, the engine retains it's turbo wiring harness. I probably should have looked more closely into it before i went and made my several hundred dollar mistake.
Swapping on the non-turbo engine wiring harness will be much less of a pain than my non working engine and blowing another ecu!
MK
Yeah, the engine retains it's turbo wiring harness. I probably should have looked more closely into it before i went and made my several hundred dollar mistake.
Swapping on the non-turbo engine wiring harness will be much less of a pain than my non working engine and blowing another ecu!
MK
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vrg3
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Agreed... Swap over the NA harness completely. I'm pretty sure the parts I enumerated above are the only ones connected to this harness. If you're lucky you can just unplug all of them and pull the harness out from under the intake manifold. The hardest part will probably be getting at the purge control solenoid and finding all the grounds.
I don't mean to be a vulture, but my fascination with electronics is no secret on this BBS... do you think I could buy your dead ECU off you?
I don't mean to be a vulture, but my fascination with electronics is no secret on this BBS... do you think I could buy your dead ECU off you?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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vrg3
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MK, you are awesome. Thank you.mk750 wrote:If i can get the new ECU installed and working, i'll send you my broken one free of charge (+shipping). You've been incredibly helpful with my swap, and with everyone else on the board. It's the least i could do.
Before you try powering the car up again, though, I think it would be really helpful if you could explicitly state everything that you did with the wiring, so we can try to spot errors or potential issues before they cause bad things to happen. Like, for example, before you realized these connectors had different pinouts despite being physically identical, what did you do with the 8-pin round connector? And which wires exactly did you use to tap power for the new solenoids and for the pressure sensor? How did you ground the pressure sensor? How did you physically tap the wires?
Hey... did you swap in a turbo fuel pump or aftermarket high-flow pump? I think the turbo fuel pump flows more than the stock non-turbo pump.
That would be very interesting.Course i am also interested in seeing what fried, so i may crack it open and have a look myself
Have you taken apart a Subaru ECU before? You have to be careful, but it's pretty easy. Here are some tips from my experience:
Wear a grounding wrist strap to avoid ESD damage to any remaining functional parts. Then just remove the screws. There are two case designs I've seen. One has just the four corner screws and then the case splits in half. With the other, the four corner screws remove the top and bottom plates, but the middle section remains screwed into the transistors. You can then remove those screws if you want to disassemble further; just remember where the heat sink clamps went.
The first type generally has two boards inside connected with a ribbon cable, while the second type is all on one board with a couple of daughterboards rising off it. The two-board ECUs have Hitachi processors with conventional 27Cxxx EPROMs and the single-board ones have Mitsubishi processors with weird Fujitsu MBM27Cxxxx EPROMs that I don't fully understand.
If you plan on trying to follow any traces using a continuity tester, be aware that there's a clear nonconductive coating over most of the board, so you'll have to scratch past it to get good connections.
Some of the components on the board are easy to identify, but there are some chips that are custom made that you won't be able to find any info on. The Mitsubishi-processor ECUs have more of this weird stuff than the Hitachi ones. The closest I could get for most of those chips was an email from a Japanese NEC rep saying "The data of this customized product cannot be sent."
A tool I've found useful for examining printed circuit boards of any type is actually a flatbed scanner. If you lay the board on the flatbed (being careful not to scratch the glass), and scan at a really high resolution, you can examine the board closely without having to use a magnifying glass or anything like that.
Keep us posted!
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Thanks, I will be careful when opening it up, i'm just interested in seeing what actually fried. I've taken apart an extra n/a legacy ecu i have, it was no problem.
Here is what i did for wiring:
MAP Sensor:
It has three wires going to it. I cut the entire length of it out of the turbo wiring harness, all the way to the pins in the connector on the ecu. I made sure to label each wire as to what exact pin it went to on the ecu. I then installed it onto my stock wiring into the same locations. I assume the ground for this is the ground wire that goes into the ecu at B48.5
Wastegate Control Solenoid:
It has two wires coming from it. I also traced them back all the way to the ECU connector, took out the pin that went to the ECU, and the other wire was yellow w/ a red stripe, it went to a bundle of wires of the same color, which also had wires leading to the ECU for power. I tapped it into the power wire B48.2 going into the ECU (wire is also the same color scheme. The other wire got inserted into the ecu connector at F47.3
Pressure Exchange Solenoid:
This was the same as the Wastegate control. One wire to the ECU (F47.20) and one yellow/red power wire. Installed the wire into the ecu harness, and tapped the power into the same location as the power from the wastegate control, B48.2
Crank and Cam sensors
For these i used your advice and just swapped the positive wires going into the ECU. B58.4, and B56.1
I tapped into the power by striping off some of the insulation on the wire going into B48.2, then soldered the two sensor power wires onto it, then wrapped w/ electrical tape.
Since from what i could tell all the wires from the round connector on the turbo engine's wiring harness were grounds.. i just mounted them all to a ground point near the battery.
I indeed swapped in the turbo fuel pump, it was a perfect, easy fit.
I used your pinout chart for everything. thanks again
MK
Here is what i did for wiring:
MAP Sensor:
It has three wires going to it. I cut the entire length of it out of the turbo wiring harness, all the way to the pins in the connector on the ecu. I made sure to label each wire as to what exact pin it went to on the ecu. I then installed it onto my stock wiring into the same locations. I assume the ground for this is the ground wire that goes into the ecu at B48.5
Wastegate Control Solenoid:
It has two wires coming from it. I also traced them back all the way to the ECU connector, took out the pin that went to the ECU, and the other wire was yellow w/ a red stripe, it went to a bundle of wires of the same color, which also had wires leading to the ECU for power. I tapped it into the power wire B48.2 going into the ECU (wire is also the same color scheme. The other wire got inserted into the ecu connector at F47.3
Pressure Exchange Solenoid:
This was the same as the Wastegate control. One wire to the ECU (F47.20) and one yellow/red power wire. Installed the wire into the ecu harness, and tapped the power into the same location as the power from the wastegate control, B48.2
Crank and Cam sensors
For these i used your advice and just swapped the positive wires going into the ECU. B58.4, and B56.1
I tapped into the power by striping off some of the insulation on the wire going into B48.2, then soldered the two sensor power wires onto it, then wrapped w/ electrical tape.
Since from what i could tell all the wires from the round connector on the turbo engine's wiring harness were grounds.. i just mounted them all to a ground point near the battery.
I indeed swapped in the turbo fuel pump, it was a perfect, easy fit.
I used your pinout chart for everything. thanks again
MK
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vrg3
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Ah, cool. Please remember to keep yourself grounded when you do pop the case open! :)
The pressure sensor wiring sounds perfect. I was just wondering if you took any shortcuts (you could have just taken the signal wire back to the ECU and used the TPS power supply and any convenient ground).
As for the two solenoids... What you did for the switched side was, again, perfect as far as I can see. As for the yellow-with-red-stripe wires (+12v), it's possible that they might be better off elsewhere. I think you might be okay but I'll give you the rundown on it anyway so you can make an educated decision:
Here's the thing: the ignition relay has two separate poles in it. One pole is used to supply power to the ECU (this is the one you tapped), and the other pole is used to supply power to the oxygen sensor heater, purge control solenoid, and IAC valve, and on turbo models also the wastegate control solenoid and pressure exchange solenoid.
So it looks like they wanted to keep all the "electromechanical" power supplies semi-separate from the "logic" power supply.
But, the two poles for the ignition relay (as well as the fuel pump relay's single pole) do both feed directly from SBF-2. So they can't be that separate.
So maybe the idea was just to make sure that neither pole was made to carry too much current. The ECU alone can't really draw much current, but it is possible that the two poles have different current ratings.
For completeness' sake, the ignition coil gets its power directly from the ignition switch, and the injectors get their power directly from SBF-2. You probably shouldn't tap either of these to power the solenoids, though.
So I guess what I'm saying is that you may possibly want to tap power for the new solenoids from the other pole of the ignition relay. Don't tap power anywhere else in the car, though, since you don't want to power them when the car's off or only with the accessories.
As for the crank and cam angle sensors, I'm 99.99% sure that what you did is fine. Like I said before, on every ECU I've examined, pins B58.5, B58.6, B62.2, and B56.3 were all internally connected to each other and to ground, so swapping those shouldn't matter anyway.
Stripping insulation, soldering, and taping up sounds just fine. I just wanted to make sure you weren't using Scotch-Loks or something. But it sounds like you know what you're doing.
I was curious what you did with the round connector, but I guess it won't matter now anyway since you'll be removing that connector from your car completely.
Good that you're using the turbo fuel pump... That's so great that you got every last part necessary for the swap. Too bad about the ECU, but I'm sure you'll get a replacement.
I'm glad the pinouts were useful. I'd been meaning to put them up for a long time but only when boostjunkie mentioned having difficulty when wiring up his S-AFC long ago did I actually get off my rear and do it. :)
The pressure sensor wiring sounds perfect. I was just wondering if you took any shortcuts (you could have just taken the signal wire back to the ECU and used the TPS power supply and any convenient ground).
As for the two solenoids... What you did for the switched side was, again, perfect as far as I can see. As for the yellow-with-red-stripe wires (+12v), it's possible that they might be better off elsewhere. I think you might be okay but I'll give you the rundown on it anyway so you can make an educated decision:
Here's the thing: the ignition relay has two separate poles in it. One pole is used to supply power to the ECU (this is the one you tapped), and the other pole is used to supply power to the oxygen sensor heater, purge control solenoid, and IAC valve, and on turbo models also the wastegate control solenoid and pressure exchange solenoid.
So it looks like they wanted to keep all the "electromechanical" power supplies semi-separate from the "logic" power supply.
But, the two poles for the ignition relay (as well as the fuel pump relay's single pole) do both feed directly from SBF-2. So they can't be that separate.
So maybe the idea was just to make sure that neither pole was made to carry too much current. The ECU alone can't really draw much current, but it is possible that the two poles have different current ratings.
For completeness' sake, the ignition coil gets its power directly from the ignition switch, and the injectors get their power directly from SBF-2. You probably shouldn't tap either of these to power the solenoids, though.
So I guess what I'm saying is that you may possibly want to tap power for the new solenoids from the other pole of the ignition relay. Don't tap power anywhere else in the car, though, since you don't want to power them when the car's off or only with the accessories.
As for the crank and cam angle sensors, I'm 99.99% sure that what you did is fine. Like I said before, on every ECU I've examined, pins B58.5, B58.6, B62.2, and B56.3 were all internally connected to each other and to ground, so swapping those shouldn't matter anyway.
Stripping insulation, soldering, and taping up sounds just fine. I just wanted to make sure you weren't using Scotch-Loks or something. But it sounds like you know what you're doing.
I was curious what you did with the round connector, but I guess it won't matter now anyway since you'll be removing that connector from your car completely.
Good that you're using the turbo fuel pump... That's so great that you got every last part necessary for the swap. Too bad about the ECU, but I'm sure you'll get a replacement.
I'm glad the pinouts were useful. I'd been meaning to put them up for a long time but only when boostjunkie mentioned having difficulty when wiring up his S-AFC long ago did I actually get off my rear and do it. :)
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
All the wires from the round connector i just ran to ground.
This SBF-2, where is it located? I may go with what i have now.. if i get some weird problems like CELs etc.. it'll prolly be the first thing i change.
I forgot to try this, but i am going to see if the fuse still blows even with the fried ecu before i swap the harness. If so after i swap over my old harness i will be able to make sure that my wiring issues are taken care of before i risk another ecu.
MK
This SBF-2, where is it located? I may go with what i have now.. if i get some weird problems like CELs etc.. it'll prolly be the first thing i change.
I forgot to try this, but i am going to see if the fuse still blows even with the fried ecu before i swap the harness. If so after i swap over my old harness i will be able to make sure that my wiring issues are taken care of before i risk another ecu.
MK
1992 BC672 AWD 5MT
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vrg3
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SBF-2 is one of the green slow-blow fuses in the underhood fuse box. You wouldn't go to it directly, though; you'd want to tap into one of the wires leaving that pole of the ignition relay.
Yeah, you'll probably be okay how you have it now.
Watch out if you connect the fried ECU; it is possible that it now contains a short-circuit itself or something. When wires or PCB traces overheat they can do kooky things. Look over it carefully when you take it apart to decide whether or not to try it, using both visual examination and a multimeter.
I definitely understand not wanting to toast another ECU... but maybe you could test with your non-turbo ECU. That may be a little safer. It won't start, of course, due to the cam/crank signals being switched, but it will at least crank. It won't test the three new components, either...
But if an ohmmeter reads about 20 ohms across the terminals of the boost control solenoid (when unplugged), and about 40 ohms across the pressure exchange solenoid, and there's no direct continuity between any of the pressure sensor pins, and a non-turbo ECU can crank the engine without popping any fuses, I'd say you're pretty safe.
And if you pop that ECU, it won't be as big a loss. Even if you do need a replacement, it'll be much easier to find.
Yeah, you'll probably be okay how you have it now.
Watch out if you connect the fried ECU; it is possible that it now contains a short-circuit itself or something. When wires or PCB traces overheat they can do kooky things. Look over it carefully when you take it apart to decide whether or not to try it, using both visual examination and a multimeter.
I definitely understand not wanting to toast another ECU... but maybe you could test with your non-turbo ECU. That may be a little safer. It won't start, of course, due to the cam/crank signals being switched, but it will at least crank. It won't test the three new components, either...
But if an ohmmeter reads about 20 ohms across the terminals of the boost control solenoid (when unplugged), and about 40 ohms across the pressure exchange solenoid, and there's no direct continuity between any of the pressure sensor pins, and a non-turbo ECU can crank the engine without popping any fuses, I'd say you're pretty safe.
And if you pop that ECU, it won't be as big a loss. Even if you do need a replacement, it'll be much easier to find.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
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vrg3
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Great! 
How hard was it exactly? Were you able to do it without removing the intake manifold(s)? Was I right that the CPC solenoid connector would be the hardest part?
Did you try cranking with your NA ECU?
How hard was it exactly? Were you able to do it without removing the intake manifold(s)? Was I right that the CPC solenoid connector would be the hardest part?
Did you try cranking with your NA ECU?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
It wasn't extremely hard. I went ahead and removed the manifold on my old engine, since it was out of the engine bay already, and was easy to work on.
The turbo motor i was able to do w/o entirely removing the manifold. I just removed all the accesories and intake plumbing, unbolted the manifold, and was able to move it enough to pull the harness out.
The solenoid you refer to is under the pass side of the manifold? It wasn't bad with the manifold unbolted. The only other difference was that the coolant temp sensor and another 1-wire sensor were on the drivers side of the coolant tube that runs across the top of the engine. On my n/a they were on the passenger side. It was simple to move the connectors over
I did not try cranking with my n/a ecu, i just left the turbo ecu in and tried it. I sounds great while cranking, if only it would actually catch and start!
MK
The turbo motor i was able to do w/o entirely removing the manifold. I just removed all the accesories and intake plumbing, unbolted the manifold, and was able to move it enough to pull the harness out.
The solenoid you refer to is under the pass side of the manifold? It wasn't bad with the manifold unbolted. The only other difference was that the coolant temp sensor and another 1-wire sensor were on the drivers side of the coolant tube that runs across the top of the engine. On my n/a they were on the passenger side. It was simple to move the connectors over
I did not try cranking with my n/a ecu, i just left the turbo ecu in and tried it. I sounds great while cranking, if only it would actually catch and start!
MK
1992 BC672 AWD 5MT
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vrg3
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Ah, cool...
Yes, the CPC solenoid is the one under the passenger side of the manifold. Some people with really slender fingers claim to be able to reach it without removing the manifold.
The 1-wire sensor you saw is for the coolant temperature gauge. The 2-wire sensor is for the ECU and the 1-wire sensor is for the dash gauge. I forgot that they were on the passenger side on non-turbos.
If it cranked with the dead turbo ECU and blew no fuses, I think you're pretty safe. Couldn't hurt to test with your non-turbo ECU as well, though... just in case the dead ECU isn't actually letting any current get to any of the sensors and stuff. With the non-turbo ECU you can also check that the Check Engine light comes on when you turn the ignition on.
Yes, the CPC solenoid is the one under the passenger side of the manifold. Some people with really slender fingers claim to be able to reach it without removing the manifold.
The 1-wire sensor you saw is for the coolant temperature gauge. The 2-wire sensor is for the ECU and the 1-wire sensor is for the dash gauge. I forgot that they were on the passenger side on non-turbos.
If it cranked with the dead turbo ECU and blew no fuses, I think you're pretty safe. Couldn't hurt to test with your non-turbo ECU as well, though... just in case the dead ECU isn't actually letting any current get to any of the sensors and stuff. With the non-turbo ECU you can also check that the Check Engine light comes on when you turn the ignition on.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212