need advise on n/a mods

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:06 am

i've been thinking of picking up a 100k mile(what i like to call broke-in) ej22. i'd like to do a few mods,and wasn't sure if the stock ecu would properly manage or will i need piggyback/stand alone stuff to do the job. the mods would include:shaving the heads,porting and polishing the heads,intake,throttlebody,and exhaust manifold. also looking to have delta set me up with some slightly lumpy cams. presently my car has a cold air intake and a flowmaster muffler(resonator removed from mid-pipe)sounds pretty mean at wot!!!!. the car is a 92 n/a 5 spd 2wd. not gonna touch the short block of the project motor,not gonna go to forced induction,not converting to awd,possibly small shot of nos in the future,but probably not.i'd appreciate any helpful advise about engine management issues that i'll likely run into with these mods and solutions to these probs.

thehookeup · Post by **thehookeup** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:03 pm

well if you change the cams without getting a piggy back you might run into problems. with more air flow from the cams at different rpm, so the computer needs to know what to do about fuel at different rpm

as it sits now you have a reasonably high compression motor, like all N/A's, nos would be cool but again ya need a piggy back or a stand alone

shaving the heads,porting and polishing the heads,intake,throttlebody,and exhaust manifold. is awesome r u doing it yourself of are you having it professinally done? all will help . but i think that before you rip into this project you should decide where you want your power. low end or top end power. the more you take off in material as far as the exhaust and intake and what now you will lose a lot of bottom end. thats what is cool about N/A subarus. we have a lot of low end power.

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:21 pm

actually, i'd like to gain between 3500 and 6000 rpms. the shaving and porting work would probably be done by a pro. nos is out. is there room for an increase in valve diameter? which controller would you suggest(keeping in mind $ and ease of use)?thank you for replying. i've been an auto tech for 10 years, but quite green to customization.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:32 pm

If you're taking the heads off, it's real easy to pull the pistons out. You could get some aftermarket forged pistons with domes to up your compression a bit, Im not sure how much you can go before valve interference becomes a problem.

Cams, PnP, some valve train work for a higher redline, cold air intake, full exhaust and at the very least an eManage, and I dont see why you couldnt hit 200 at the crank.

thehookeup · Post by **thehookeup** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:53 am

you have to look at what is most cost effective. 200 crank hp is totally possible, but do you really want to throw that much money at your car? what your talking about doing is not cheep.... anything is possible its all about the dollar sign. valve diameteri guess can be changed but it would cost a grip load of money. new valves, seats, springs.

i think your project is a cool good idea. but if your worried about cost and what not i would build a boost motor if i were you.

a lot of N/A subaru power is expensive, compaired to boosted power.

plus there are a ton of performance parts available for boosted motors compaired to N/A's.

whats your location? cause that can play a big part in availability of parts

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:32 am

i'm in upstate new york. my project can spread out until springtime or longer. i just wanna get things in order and have a rough idea on $$$$$. i know it's altogether not cheap,but don't wanna put together a package that doesn't work well together.

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:57 am

At least a few grand

206er · Post by **206er** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:04 am

this seriously comes up like once a month. do some searching.
ported stock heads with delta cams and a phase 1 2.5L shortblock is a tried and true way to have 180 or so hp and the stock ecu will be able to handle it just fine. you could get more with something such as a perfectpower or emanage too.

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:43 am

206er,what exactly is a phaseI 2.5L? if it was a stock engine,what years and models should i be looking for? if not,where do i get one. this looks like it may be a more realistic setup and retain a daily driver status without management issues. was the phaseI just another i.d. for sohc ej25?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:15 am

dohc = phase 1

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:12 pm

so, i'm converting from dohc to sohc,that part i get. what years/models of 2.5 should i look for?would i use the 2.2 timing belt?

Splinter · Post by **Splinter** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:14 pm

97-99

Use the EJ22 timing belt and the EJ22 crank sprocket, yes.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:56 pm

speedoboy31 wrote:so, i'm converting from dohc to sohc,that part i get. what years/models of 2.5 should i look for?would i use the 2.2 timing belt?

No you are not. You are just using the shortblock from that engine and keeping your heads.

Also, I advise against shaving your heads. The tolerances are very slim and you can't take off very much meat and still have a head that won't warp and become susceptible to HG failures. But if you get a phase I Ej25 shortblock, that will be handled for you anyways as the block will bump the compression for you...

206er,
Have you ever gotten your car on the dyno? I would hazard to guess it's a bit north of 180chp and likely closer to 200...

206er · Post by **206er** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:58 pm

nope, and dont plan to. I'd be fine with 200

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:59 pm

THANKS FOR YOUR ADVISE. I'LL BE LOOKING FOR A 2.5L NOW.

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:25 pm

206er wrote:nope, and dont plan to. I'd be fine with 200

Oh, come on. Take one for the team. We all want to know the real numbers for the hybrid and quit guesstimating...

Am I going to have to put together a pool thread in the ashtray and get people to pitch in money to get you dyno'd???

206er · Post by **206er** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:41 am

lol, as you have guessed money is just a little tight for me to be blowing $80 on something like a dyno pull. plus I dont want to get embarrased if its way low.

maybe I will go see what it runs in the 1/4.

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:41 pm

one more question: what would my compression ratio end up at?i do still wanna run pump gas.i've seen in other threads reference to 13:1 ish. is that a fair estimate?

tris91ricer · Post by **tris91ricer** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:52 pm

13 to one?!?!? whoa kid, you can't talk like that when the subaru's around.

I have a hybrid motor -- EJ20g shortblock wrapped with EJ22t heads and intake manifold. Due to the block/head combo, my cr is somewhere around 9:1, which makes for a nice punchy ride. However, I am turbo, and i try NOT to run pump gas when I can afford it. (trick fuel ftw)

to answer your question, 13:1 is not even possible, and if it were on our motors, you couldn't run pump gas.

Keep your eyes open for a turbo motor, and go the extra mile. . Trust me, its worth it.
if you want more proof, search for a thread where we've compared heavily modded NAs to lightly modded un- NAs. ". . . A modded NA doesn't amount to a hill of beans. . compared to a stock turbo. . . "

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:18 pm

Subarus and turbos and AWD are good mmkay?

The NA models were made to be A-B cars, grocery getters, the AWD models for winter driving... the turbo sport sedans were overengineered all to hell and can take insane amounts of internal engine pressure on the stock internals (stock fuel delivery and control system notwithstanding).

+1 for just snagging an EJ22T & parts necessary to swap, then going from there. Much much more potential available to you from then on...

Edit: Have you seen Douglas Vincent's posts about his crazy supercharged N/A EJ22... with N2O? Yeah. So you can get a taste for what you're in for when you decide on trying for some decent power from your engine, you should look up his posts and read through them. How many engines have you blown through now Doug?

Bad-ass project and mad props to you but I don't think this guy's prepared to go through motors like you do

206er · Post by **206er** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:40 pm

tris91ricer wrote:13 to one?!?!? whoa kid, you can't talk like that when the subaru's around.

I have a hybrid motor -- EJ20g shortblock wrapped with EJ22t heads and intake manifold. Due to the block/head combo, my cr is somewhere around 9:1, which makes for a nice punchy ride. However, I am turbo, and i try NOT to run pump gas when I can afford it. (trick fuel ftw)

to answer your question, 13:1 is not even possible, and if it were on our motors, you couldn't run pump gas.

Keep your eyes open for a turbo motor, and go the extra mile. . Trust me, its worth it.
if you want more proof, search for a thread where we've compared heavily modded NAs to lightly modded un- NAs. ". . . A modded NA doesn't amount to a hill of beans. . compared to a stock turbo. . . "

sure 13:1 possible, 15:1 is too. but its race gas/alky/LPG territory.
the motor combo in question is 10.8:1 which is on the limit of pump gas at sea level.
the beauty of an NA motor is that it still gets mpg in the 20's with hard driving, is dead nuts reliable, requires no wiring work, and has a broad(er) powerband than many turbo motors.

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:28 am

sorry, i think i was misunderstood.if it were to yeild 13:1, i wouldn't do it. i'm looking to stay streetable as a daily driver. i'm not looking for a supertuner,i'm looking for a little extra umph retaining reliability/driveability. you've all been very helpfull---thank you!!!!
206er, i got a major score!!!!! i found a 99 2.5 dohc at a salvage yard with 105k for $150.00 usd and they're pulling it. i deal with this yard frequently and offered to give them back the heads. i also have a very good running 92 leg w/dead trans and wooped body and susp(not worth fixxing)that i've already robbed for the rear sway stuff and fabbed/welded mounts to my rear lat links. the heads/cams on this motor will serve me well for the mod. what do i ask delta for a cam modification---so they will know what i want---cause i really don't?

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:58 pm

I hate to rain on your parade after did all that work, but if you install the lateral links from any Legacy or Impreza that had a factory sway bar, you can bolt one up. No welding/fabbing required...

speedoboy31 · Post by **speedoboy31** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:36 am

matt monson,here's the umbrella i brought to the parade:i know that i could have swapped lat links,but here in the northeast,our lower lat link bolts don't fair so well. also i didn't disturb the eccentric inner bolts,so i didn't fart around with re-aligning the rear.
in my opinion,a quick welding of some angle-iron saved a couple extra steps in adding the rear swaybar. not trying to be a smart-ass,but won't be called a dumb-ass either!!!!!!!!!!!!! "i am what i am,and that's what i am"-----popeye

Project_Legacy · Post by **Project_Legacy** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:43 am

is it at all possible to use a phase II 2.5 motor? i thought it was ok to use either.

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need advise on n/a mods

need advise on n/a mods