Mechanics are a ripoff.

[thefultonhow]

My dad's 2001 Forester needs the cats replaced. My mom took it to the mechanic who quoted her $1200-1300. He said it would have been more but he managed to find a cat setup for $600, and it should have been $1200. Priced out a kit with the front and rear cats online and it was $275.

$1300 my ass. I asked my mom if she would pay me the $600 in labor instead, but I don't think she's going to, lol.

[0perose]

yeah, isn't it funny how when you tell someone how much the repair actually should cost, they never want to give you what they were going to give Joe Mechanic?

I hate exhaust work... the rust belt sucks. $1300 sounds about right

[jake15]

well, the new OEM cats are 550-600 from the stealership... but $600 in labor is WAY more than it should be to replace it.

and the newer cars dont respond well to aftermarket cats.. they still have a tendency to turn the cel on. we just had a customer in the shop today who has exactly that problem. he replaced the cats himself with aftermarket cats and what do you know, cel is still on

[thefultonhow]

and the newer cars dont respond well to aftermarket cats.. they still have a tendency to turn the cel on. we just had a customer in the shop today who has exactly that problem. he replaced the cats himself with aftermarket cats and what do you know, cel is still on

Crap, really? Because that was the whole reason we were replacing the cats in the first place -- CEL is on.

I guess we'll just have to see how much the damn OEM cats cost...

[thefultonhow]

I feel a little better about the bill because my mom neglected to tell me that both O2 sensors needed to be replaced as well. Labor is quoted as "only" $261.36.

[Bheinen74]

that sounds really fishy, a 5 year old car needing all the CAT converters replaced, AND 2 O2 sensors.
think the problem here is:
dishonest mechanics are gonna screw anyone who knows nothing about cars, especially the women.
this is your dads car, why doesn't he take it to the mechanic to get the diagnosis and estimate? instead of your mom taking it and getting fucked over.

i would take a guesstimate here, it may have 1 bad O2 sensor, thats all. I would guesstimate the CATS are good, and so is the 2nd O2. I would definitely try a different mechanic.

[thefultonhow]

Actually, the 2001 Subarus in general got cursed with bad O2 sensors, and the dealer replaced at least one of them a couple of times under warranty when the car was newer. So the O2s don't surprise me at all. And on NASIOC I'm seeing a lot of people with cars (Imprezas, Legacies, and Foresters) of around this vintage and mileage with bad cats. The code the mechanic pulled was P0420, which is legitimately a bad cat.

[Bheinen74]

Actually, the 2001 Subarus in general got cursed with bad O2 sensors, and the dealer replaced at least one of them a couple of times under warranty when the car was newer. So the O2s don't surprise me at all. And on NASIOC I'm seeing a lot of people with cars (Imprezas, Legacies, and Foresters) of around this vintage and mileage with bad cats. The code the mechanic pulled was P0420, which is legitimately a bad cat.

Subaru is gonna have a problem then.
wonder what is happening? bad gas? gas mixture with ethanol? gasohol? etc? causing the internals of the CATS to burn up or I have no idea. Really does suck, especially with such a new car. Newer isn't always better so true.

[jake15]

the CEL is on after 6 years of driving... the guy i was talking about's CEL came on within 2 weeks of putting the aftermarket cats on.

po420 actually means that the catalytic converters are operationg "below the efficiency range". so they're still working just not up to obdII standards. if the car has less than 80,000 on it and you take it to the dealership i think its 3 times with the po420 code (they actually have to document that they've checked it 3 times with the code) then i'm pretty sure they will replace the converter for free (at least thats been my experience), you might try saying its been on before and see how far that gets you.

and the newer cars do tend to eat up O2 sensors pretty fast compared to the older cars..... its just the nature of the beast

[thefultonhow]

120,000 miles... no dice.

It already had 70,000 after the first year. If my dad had kept the same job he had that year, he would have put at least 350k on the car if we still had it.

[BAC5.2]

PO420 is usually a rear O2 sensor code. The voltage signal from the rear O2 sensor is close to the wave from the front sensor, and the ECU thinks the cat is no longer efficient.

I've had the code in my car for a while. I just keep clearing it. It comes on about once a month.

It's more likely that the rear O2 sensor is bad than it is the cat.

Depending on how you feel about the car, I'd suggest taking it to a shop with a 5-gas analyizer and seeing what the actual emissions are like. You can also go to an EPA testing station and have the emissions tested. If they fall within the range of passing, I'd suggest looking into a Mechanical type CEL fix. It's less expensive than a new rear O2 sensor (at $20) and easy to install. It pulls the oxygen sensor out of the exhaust stream a bit and allows it to sample at a slower rate, preventing the sine-waves from both sensors from following eachother (keeping the CEL off).

It's not the most legal fix, but if the car is still clean in emissions, it'll save you a hundred bucks over getting a new rear O2 sensor (a sensor who's only job is to tattle-tale a bad cat).

Totally up to you, but I bet the cat's are still good. I'd get an actual sniffer test done before dropping that kind of change. The shop should have recommended this approach.

Also, a front O2 sensor malfunction will throw it's own code (open circuit, closed circuit, heater malfunction, low operating range or high operating range are all the possible OBD2 codes for the O2 sensor). If he's saying it needs replacing, but there is no malfunction code, then that sounds shady and is something to be looked at. PO420 relates ONLY to the rearward O2 sensor. The front sensor is pre-cat, so it can't tell you that the cat is inefficient.

[Bheinen74]

yeah, no way the car needs both O2 sensors and all the cats, just not feasable. the mechanic who suggestied it needed all that is ripping anybody off who agrees to that suggestion, totally ripping ya off