Manual Boost Controller - MBC Comparison

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:22 pm

Well I've been looking at MBC's, however I'm not really sure I've got it narrow'd down to the "best" one.

These are the ones I'm looking at:

Hallman Pro RX
http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/applic.html

Joe P (one of them, probably the pro-z)
http://www.joepmbc.com/mbc.html

TurboXS Standard or High Perf. Boost Controllers
http://www.turboxs.com/shop_prod.php?what_category=1

Here's the pros I've found between the different models.

The Hallman has a ceramic ball, which is lighter, and supposed to offer quicker response. It also has a lighter weight spring to allow for more fine tuning .

The Joe P has a dual ball setup, however I'm not exactly sure how that is going to help.

The TurboXS HP one has a ball & spring & bleeder setup to help reduce spikes.

So that's what I've found. Anyone have any opinions, comments, or additional MBC's I should look at?

Thanks

BB · Post by BB » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:09 am

You guys know grainger sell these for like 12 bucks right? I'd kill to have a McMasterCarr or grainger supply in my area (NS, Can).

BB

kleinkid · Post by **kleinkid** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:38 am

I used the Hybrid Boost Controller from www.3barracing.com They have a cockpit cotrolled controller also, and other stuff. I am set at 10psi with the stock vf-11. Something to look at.

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:59 am

Yeah I ran across that one too.

I know I can make one, but I just don't really feel like putting a bunch of brass fittings together and calling it a boost controller. Maybe I'm making this thing more complicated then it is...

BB · Post by BB » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:39 am

Disclaimer: haven't used one myself but:

www.mcmaster.com

pn: 48935k35

page 432 bottom

stick a barb fitting in the end get it the right way 'round and you're done. Same materials an seals as the automotive ones. I've seen them (or similar) remarketed as automotive ones sold for 100 bucks.

BB

Post by **Legacy777** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:56 am

I emailed all of the manufacturers to see what sort of response I would get.

I got this from Joe P:

To be honest, I have no experience with the other controllers other than what I hear from my customers about them. I have, however disassembled a Hallman and it is a very nice controller. Very well built, just a bit bigger than I would personally like.

The dual ball setup was designed to prevent over boost in case of adjusting screw loss- the second ball would block the hole preventing a major leak. The Pro-Z does not use nor require such a setup due to the it being an interlocking design- nothing to lose, no adjusting "screw", etc. The IL does not use a dual ball, it is basically two halves that screw together. If you somehow manage to loosen it too much and it comes apart in use, you will over boost.

As for the ceramic ball, that is used to keep weight down in the Hallman due to the size of the ball. My controller uses a much smaller 5/32" stainless ball that still weighs less than the ceramic ball in the Hallman, so it was not necessary for my design. Too many people see that his uses a ceramic ball for better response and automatically assume that makes it better than mine without it- that is not the case here.

The spring in my controller is a bit firmer than some of the others, making it a bit more sensitive to adjusting- people who are used to a softer spring may fell it is a bit too touchy at first, but I also have gotten a lot of positive feedback on it due to adjustments being quicker and easier over the years, so I stuck with it. Once you get the "feel" for any controller, it is a non-issue.

The Turbo XS HP controller I know nothing about, but I have heard good things. I know I heard a LOT of complaints about their original controller, but the HP is supposed to be a very good controller also.

The Hybrid controller is the Gus Mahon design, he is an old Turbo Dodge guy. That design has been around for quite a long time also. I have seen the controller on the web, but have never personally used it or heard anything about it from anyone who has. I do have a dealer that sells both and they prefer mine, though it may be based on cosmetics alone as they have just said "it works" when telling me about the Hybrid. I see they mention their components are 1/3 the weight of other controllers- I don't know what they are comparing it to, but it certainly isn't mine, possibly the original Hallman.

As for things really helping or just being marketing hype- I think some of it does help with that particular design- like the ceramic ball in the Hallman for example. The dual ball in my XZ was the only controller design that would protect against overboosting should you lose the screw- did it help?- only if you didn't tighten the screw enough and it fell out, which actually happens more than you'd think it would. Other than that, it was certainly a sales angle also, but it did serve a purpose. I would say some of the info on the Hybrid site though is more marketing than anything, but that is just based on my experience with MBC's in general- like I said, I have no experience with their controller.

I hope this helps some. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. Thanks.
Joe
Joe P. Manual Boost Controllers
www.joepmbc.com

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:34 pm

A ball and spring MBC is such a simple mechanism, I don't think it's a big deal which you go with. No worries. Get one and have fun

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:56 am

The TurboXS one has an adjustable bleeder valve, does the Hallman have one to?

Doesn't the bleeder valve control boost response? I.E. Opening the wastegate sooner to gradually build boost versus keeping the wastegate closed longer to build boost fast?

If so, I'd go with the TXS one.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:21 pm

rallysam wrote:A ball and spring MBC is such a simple mechanism, I don't think it's a big deal which you go with. No worries. Get one and have fun

It is a simple mechanism, but the laws of physics still apply. A smaller mass, i.e. smaller ball and/or weight will require less force to move then a larger ball. That's basically what I'm narrowing things down to now. The JoeP & Dawes controllers seem to fit in that category.

I have more email conversations, but I'll post them later.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:23 pm

Imprezive wrote:The TurboXS one has an adjustable bleeder valve, does the Hallman have one to?

Doesn't the bleeder valve control boost response? I.E. Opening the wastegate sooner to gradually build boost versus keeping the wastegate closed longer to build boost fast?

If so, I'd go with the TXS one.

The bleeder is there to help control spiking and transient type stuff. The bleeder is not really functional until the ball opens. But I'm not really sure how effective it really is, and if it's worth the money to me.

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:41 pm

I'm not saying either of you, nor the salespeople are incorrect per se, but I am saying that these features make so little difference that it's not worth thinking about. I have a simple Hallman ball and spring and my car has almost zero lag.

As long as you look at reputable brands (and everything you're looking at is reputable) then you can't go wrong and you won't be able to tell the difference. Shopping for MBC's is just a matter of choosing which one has the most features you'll never use.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:44 pm

Well put Sam.

I like the response I got from Joe P, the styling is decent, and the cost is reasonable, so that's probably what I'm going to get.

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:45 pm

Yeah I agree, I mean if you are shopping for an MBC you are looking at products that are a simple design, no need to stress the small stuff. I think I might get the Hallman one, as soon as I know if I have to pay this damn ticket I aquired....

by the way, I found a slightly used perrin one on NASIOC, are those any good?

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:50 pm

Imprezive wrote:by the way, I found a slightly used perrin one on NASIOC, are those any good?

I haven't really researched Perrin, but I'm sure it's pretty good.

The only perrin stuff I've run across is their electronic boost control solenoid. It pretty much converts the bleed style wastegate setup on the WRX to how ours are setup where the wastegate solenoid doesn't open until the desired boost is reached.

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:38 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Red-Hall ... enameZWDVW

Buy it, its the Pro RX

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:20 pm

Actually that's the one I have. You won't use the light spring. They say the light spring is for going "5psi over STOCK" but they mean "5psi over WASTGATE" which would not be much of an upgrade.

edit - wrote the wrong number at first

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:27 am

If you just loop thge compressor nipple to the wastegate what kind of boost would you get? Less than stock?

The Scooby · Post by **The Scooby** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:38 am

i have the TurboXS HP MBC, when i first got it and was showed how to ajust it it was perfect, no boost spikes etc, but then a year later when i put on my TD04L and tried to remember how to ajust it it sucks.

also the turboXS website isn't very felpful when it comes to explaining which one is the fine ajustment and what one is the corse ajustment.

so i just said screw it and grabbed a peice of silicone hose and just looped the compressor to the gate. good enough for me when its hitting and holding 10psi.

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:28 am

I've got a Perrin MBC sitting on my desk at home. Picked it up at a swap for $40 bucks. Build quality looks good. Probably won't install for a while tho so I can't tell you about performance...Definitly would be good to get a product review of these in that section...

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:54 am

Imprezive wrote:If you just loop thge compressor nipple to the wastegate what kind of boost would you get? Less than stock?

Yes, less than stock. You'd get "wastegate" boost. On the turbo that comes with a Sport Sedan, that's 6psi IIRC. Try it one time for fun. It feels so friggen slow. Then when plug in the boost controller it feels like a new car.

The stock boost controller interupts the pressure in that hose - allowing the turbo to spool up to 9-10 psi IIRC. Once the ECU sees the pressure get up to 9-10 psi, it allows pressure to flow through the hose and open the wastegate - keeping it at 9-10.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:53 am

Just wanted to update this thread.

I decided to go with the JoeP Pro-Z controller.

It was a reasonably priced MBC, has good asthetics, and communication with Joe about technical info on the MBC was good.

I'll update again once I get it installed.

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:37 am

Thanks Josh. Can you add a link to that one? I'm not familar with it!!

Adam West · Post by **Adam West** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:20 am

Oh, I see it now. Yeah, that is a cool shape - different look for sure...

91l-t · Post by **91l-t** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:22 am

you may want to check this link out... you may be interested.

http://www.geocities.com/chmwatson/FAQs/mbc.html

rich

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:56 pm

Rich,

Thanks for the link. That's actually a pretty damn good write-up for making your own MBC.

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Manual Boost Controller - MBC Comparison

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