This is starting to get EXTREMELY annoying. Today I got up and drove around for a bit, car was warmed up. I stopped at the park for about an hour then went around some more. After about 5 mins of driving the hesitation/bucking crap started again. I tried to ignore it like I'm sure we all do. After a few lights I came to a stop at the next one and waited for it to change. Then the car died. Started back up, had to wait some more and it died again. Started up once more and the light turned before it died again. Drove around a bit more, same crap happened almost everytime I stopped. Also since I've changed the sparkplugs it hates WOT, no matter if I mash it open or gently open it. It bucks until I let off the pedal some.
What the hell is going on. I've got no clue where to look for a problem. At first I thought it was my alternator. Replaced that and it hella helped the electronics lights are brighter and stuff and the idle was a lot smoother for about a day. Then I changed spark plugs, the old ones were hella worn, but NGK v-powers . Now I'm thinking it might be a fuel problem, but have no clue what to check first to be sure. Could it be related to the o2 or knock sensors? I don't even know where they are to check them.
So to recap, it only happens after the car is warmed up, and it just dies after idling for a while.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
Have you recently replaced your ignition wires? If not, I'd do it right away. The fact that you say stuff changed for the worse when you changed spark plugs indicates that this may have to do with the ignition system.
Are the plug wires seated properly on the plugs and the ignition coil?
When you changed plugs, did you put in NGK V-powers again? What gap did you set them to?
Also, when was the last time you changed your fuel filter and air filter?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Changed the air filter today. The new plugs are v-powers. I left them at stock my gapper read .42 ish, but I'm pretty sure I was just using it wrong or something and they're really .44. I made sure the wires were pushed all the way down into the plugs and havent messed with the part on the coil but I'll go check that. This hasn't just started, it's been doing this since about feb of this year, but it wasnt nearly as frequently as today.
I have no idea when the fuel filter was last changed, but I'm fairly sure its been more than a year. And I havent changed the wires either.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
When you pushed the wires onto the plugs, did you hear/feel the terminals click onto the plugs?
If you don't know how old the wires are, you may as well replace them. Sometimes if you run an engine in a dark room (make sure it's ventilated though so you don't die) you can see sparks arcing through the insulation of old wires.
I recommend Magnecor wires.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
I don't recall hearing any of them click but then again I wasn't listening for it. Wow the magnecors are like 100 bucks, anything cheaper that's still pretty good performance wise? How are the NGK wires?
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
The click is very important! If the terminal doesn't properly snap onto the spark plug, under some circumstances the spark may have to arc from the terminal to the plug, losing a lot of strength.
The 8.5mm Magnecor wires are $65.35 plus shipping from Cyberspace Automotive Performance (www.cyberauto.com). They could probably source you the 8mm or 7mm wires even cheaper, bringing the price close to that of other wiresets.
The biggest strength of the Magnecors is that they don't wear out; you don't have to replace them.
NGK wires are probably the best after Magnecors. They are still meant to be replaced every so often, though. The best price on them is probably from Auto Parts Giant (www.autopartsgiant.com) at $32.89.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
I'm possibly leaning towards MAF sensor......I had similar issues with the car just dieing......
If you can find a "loaner" maf sensor to test out the theory that would be best and cheapest route. I had an intermittan maf problem for over a year, and I didn't feel like spending 300+ bucks and not be sure.
Well, when the car is cold there's a lot more extra fuel around, so the characteristics of the mixture and ease of ignition are different. Also, it's possible that microscopic cracks in plug wire insulation only show up when it's hot and expanded.
Josh may be right... I've never actually seen an actual case of a bad MAF sensor (the things are very sturdily built inside) but it could be an intermittent fault. Hopefully you can find a loaner MAF close to you, but if you want one shipped from across the country, PM me.
In any case, it would be good for your car to put new ignition wires in. :)
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
I just went and checked my ECU for codes stored (i had cleared it a few days ago), It gave me the code 23 once again, which is the MAF. So I went to do the battery dance, I hadn't even turned the car on, just put it in the on position. When I opened the hood without even trying to sniff or smell (just breathing regularly), I smelled gas. I tried to check for loose hoses anywhere and couldn't find anything. I don't know where the charcol canister is, but I think it's high time for a fuel filter change at the very least. Also should I try running w/o the o2 sensor as was suggested in this thread?
Edit: Nvm I found the canister, it looks to be in good condition. Something I noticed when I was letting it warm up after reconnecting the batt, when I went to the rear of the car I noticed a high pitched whine. It seemed to be coming from under the right rear, near the tire. What could that be, and is that normal? After I was done trying to figure out where that noise was coming from I got back in the car and it started to slowly die. It was just slowly dropping revs while still trying to run, pulsing like. I ought to go get new wires today. Do the MAF sensors differ between turbo and N/A?
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
Well I changed the wires. I don't know what they were but they were 7mm, I got autolite's 7.5mm (cheapest ones kragen had) cause I don't expect them to last and I don't see them as a permanant solution. But they sure have made a difference so far, no dieing in traffic or while idling, and it feels more responsive. I don't know if thats because the wires are bigger or if because they are newer but whatever it is it seemed to have solved the problem...for now. I also picked up a new pcv valve and fuel filter im pretty sure neither of them have been changed in over a year. Hopefully some of this will help, but the only real way to know is time.
What is a fuel pump supposed to sound like? It didn't change pitch or tone or anything but it was very high pitched.
Last edited by THAWA on Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
Dunno about the rest (suffering some similar probs meself) but I had a similar problem recently with my golf fuel pump, it started to get reheally noisy and the car ran like a dog and also staryted dying all the time. Would you beleive it was all just down to the fuel filter and I only found this out after about a week of it pissing petrol all over the road. At first I thought it was an oil leak because I wasnt really paying attention to the car and the massive stains outside the house but one day when it rained I spotted the massive petrol slick behind the car. Checked underneath and the filter had split (most probably due to it never being changed) and when I got it off it was filled with crud, rust and fook loads of petrol (I only mention the petrol as it can spurt all over the place when u disconnect it).
Itd explain the loss in power and the idle problems as well as the petrol smell so it may be worth checking, shouldnt be an expensive swap and its good maintainance anyway not to mention saving the fuel pupmp..
If only I hadnt bought the bike, this would feel fast :P
heh, you must've been typing this while I was, but yeah I've got a sneaking suspension its the filter. Thanks for the headsup, I'll try and get this done before work though
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
THAWA - Good the hear the wires helped. The difference in diameter won't matter too much; the diameter of the conductor should be about the same. The extra half millimeter thickness comes from more insulation. That gives you a little more protection against the spark "leaking out" but if the wire is in good condition it won't happen even with only 7mm wire.
Changing the PCV valve and fuel filter sounds like good insurance at the least.
DOA - Wow. Maybe the filter split because it got clogged and the pressure built up in it until it exploded?
In our cars there are two filters. The one on the left strut tower is meant to be replaced often, and the screen on the sock attached to the fuel pump is not really meant to be changed often. I have heard of the latter one getting clogged before, though.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
oh boy, that didn't do much. I've got it from hating WOT to loving only WOT. What the heck? Anyways, I guess it didn't hurt to change any of that stuff. And I'm sure it helped prevent something crazy from happenening. The pcv valve was horribly dirty. Couldn't even see the color of the valve, all black with crud, really nasty, I shoudl've changed the tube aswell, but didn't feel like putting the old one in a going to the store just for that. Ah well, so I went driving again, its more responsive than it's been in a long time, and she loves it when I go WOT must've drove around for 10 mins screaming around corners and shit, got I love this car. Afterwards I decided to be less hard on her and slowed it down a bit, then she started gagging(aka hestation). While waiting to make a u-turn she died. So I took her back home and now shes resting. Hopefully I can figure this out soon i love driving her again now I guess it's time to check the MAF. But man is this car music to my ears!
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
If the PCV valve is not functioning correctly, it might be allowing too much air through at high vacuum. That can make lean air/fuel mixtures and cause drivability problems. It shouldn't make the engine stall out though.
You know, this could be a fuel pressure regulator problem too, since it's supposed to be referenced against manifold pressure... I don't know much about how to diagnose fuel pumps from their sound.
It could be an oxygen sensor issue too, since at WOT the car runs open loop. Maybe you should try unplugging the sensor and resetting the ECU.
I'm just trying to think of things that change when you go to WOT.
Or maybe you should reset the ECU anyway, now that you've changed a few things.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Well I reset it earlier today, and drove about 5 miles until everything was changed(trips to the store). At anyrate I'm going to check the codes again and see what comes up. I'll try the o2 thing tomorrow if I can figure out how.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
Damn, shame it wasnt just the filter, but it does sound like it was giving you grief if its a wee bit better. Not knowing all that much about turbo engines (and far too much about n/a engines lol) I wouldnt have a clue what else it could be but I do know that by resetting my ECU today its running far far better than it was now that its codes are clear.
As for my filter possibly exploding, I definately recon thats what must have happened, especially the way the fuel pump had been buzzing away for so long lol.
If only I hadnt bought the bike, this would feel fast :P
OOps, forgot they did pifling N/A versions dont see many off them over here, or the turbos for that matter lol.
In which case then, does it do it only when hot? if so its possibly an emisions pipe thats leaking/split and buggering up your idle (had the same thing on me golf although I suppose that could be a rabbit over there) , have a look and see if theres any new looking oil stains anywhere , that can sometimes be a sign of it. Other than that its possibly still a blockage in your fuel lines. Does the car sputter before taking off on WOT,m could signify a problem there. Also, unplug the O2 sensor as suggested earlier (you can actually reach that quite easily I spotted today) and see if that helps any and after that I aint got a clue coz im too used to mechanical injection problems which tend to be a case of bend this, see if it works and so on lol.
If only I hadnt bought the bike, this would feel fast :P
Well after I changed fuel filter and pcv valve it doesnt mind wot now. But yeah it only dies or hesitates when hot. Also we got both the rabbit and the golf over here but I think the golf replaced the rabbit, not 100% sure though as the only vw's i ever followed were scirocco(had a 16v for like a month was tooooooo sweet) and corrado. I haven't seen any new stains, but I do still smell fuel so I've no clue what it is. Checked the ECU for codes again today and got 23-maf once again. Our cars can't run w/o the maf right? I'm going to try unplugging the o2 and see if that helps.
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
How the fookin hell did u guys get the 16v scirocco, thought that was only a mainland europe car and it never made it to here. Wasnt that keen on the 8v 1 tho, nowhere near as good to drive as the mk2 golf .
Your definately sure its fuel your smelling btw, when was the last time you changed the oil (bit of an oddball but it could be in the oil which aint good and not really connected to the part throttle problem). SAying that though and going and smelling me golf, the breather thats split does rather smell off petrol but....... If it is a leak, you definately want to get it sorted pretty pronto, engine fires aint no fun.
Is there by any chance (remembering that I havent had mine for long enough to check such things out) an idle control valve anywhere in the FI system as these cause massive problems in golfs and does the car have a different map that negates the MAF during WOT as that would explain why its only happening on part throttle only now (ie the MAF really is fooked).
If only I hadnt bought the bike, this would feel fast :P
Yeah since I posted my last message I had been trying to get the damn o2 sensor disconnected, First I tried taking it out of the exhaust, then I tried unhooking the connector up by the manifold. At anyrate I couldn't get it off. As for the 16v it was actually a friend at work, who bought it from some guy in florida who eventually moved like a block or two away from me. Reverse was out on it so my mom made me give it up(I was 16 at the time). Otherwise I mostlikely wouldn't be right here right now . I think there were only like 800 16v's released in '86 the year that car was. And the two following were similar numbers. It was hella fun to drive except for first gear cause of the damn push in and forward crap. Anyways I'd like to get one again, he was goin all out with euro styling. It was going to be pimp. He also had an 8v with more than 250k miles a few years ago.
I'm fairly sure its gas as it doesnt smell like oil, I just changed the oil like 2-3 weeks ago. I'm starting to get mad that its still doing this, but I'm happy I'm finally figuring it out, with all the help from you guys
Rio Red 90 Legacy LS AWD 174k
Liquid Silver 92 SVX LS-L 88k
[url=http://folding.amdmbpond.com/FoldingForOurFuture.html]Do you fold?[/url]
I'm on First and First. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe.
. Now I'm thinking it might be a fuel problem, but have no clue what to check first to be sure. Could it be related to the o2 or knock sensors? I don't even know where they are to check them.
dont see many off them over here, or the turbos for that matter lol.