Car wont start(some of the time) kinda weird!

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:42 am

Ok, so ever since I bought my 1992 t-leg (around a month ago) it has had some funky ignition issues. When I first got it, it wouldt start every time you turn the key, but instead just make some clicking noise from some relay or something. The starter wouldnt even try to turn over. But I ignored it because I had bigger fish to fry.

Now it is happening more frequently, before I'd just try turning the key a couple more times and it would start up but not it has fits where it just wont start at all.

So it basically happens whenever, when its cold, hot, has just been driven, has been sitting over night, with a new batter, with old battery, with new terminals and ground wire, new starter, new remote relay connector for starter motor. None of the previously mentioned things made any difference.

But last night I was leacing from my girlfriends and it wouldnt start, so we jumped it and it started! WTF!? I got a new battery today and outside of the auto parts store (with new battery hooked up) it wouldnt start. So we (me and my girlfriend) leave to run some errands for ~40mins, come back and it starts right up! I hadn't donte anything to it but leave it sit for 40 minutes and now it decided to start.

I have checked that it is getting power to the remote relay switch on the starter (its getting about 8 volts). Is this enough or should it be getting 12 volts or something?

The starter is a remanufactured bosch one, and the grounding from the battery to the starter has been redone.

I am wondering if maybe the starter interlock relay or some other starter relay has gone bad? All I hear is a clicking noise from around where the PCV valve is.

Someone help? Anyone have a similar problem, so far I havent been able to pinpoint any consistencies in when it doesnt start...

jnorion · Post by **jnorion** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:45 am

I'm interested in the answer, my car has the exact same problem, no noticeable pattern.

Bheinen74 · Post by **Bheinen74** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:40 am

loosen the bolts on the battery terminals, wiggle the connectors and slightly rotate/turn them to a new slightly new spot, tigthen bolts.

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:43 am

So I did some poking around today and had a little help from my brother in law with brainstorming ideas.

It seems it only works when ~10-12v is supplied to the starter solenoid. Probably 12v since that seems like a nice even number. Soooo, something in the ignition wiring is reducing the power to only 8v by the time it makes it to the starter itself.

If I jump the started from the battery it fires up fine. I think its safe to say its either the clutch switch under the kick panel or the ignition switch right there on the steering column itself.

My reasoning: since there is no pattern at all, its got to be a variable that changes each time you press in the clutch and turn the key. I would assume a solenoid would have some prefference for working right (be it cold, hot, etc...)

Tomorrow I will replace the clutch switch with one that I am pretty much certain operates correctly. And will post results!

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:46 pm

I thought it was fixed with the new clutch switch but it isnt. I now think it is in the ignition switch itself.

91l-t · Post by **91l-t** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:35 am

make sure your ground on the intake is good and clean, they have a habit of corroding and giving similar problems, it' on the back of the intake, driver's side, the is the main ground for all sensors an ecu.

rich

Bheinen74 · Post by **Bheinen74** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:40 am

did you try to move the battery terminal connectors just a little bit?

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:54 pm

Mine does the same thing too. I'm pretty sure it's the ignition switch. A previous owner of my car had the same problem and his solution was to wire the ignition switch straight to the starter, going around the stock wiring. That didn't work, so guess what that means?

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:17 pm

yeah, I think its the switch itself as well. So I guess its time to pull out a the 'ol manual and find out which wire is sending juice through the solenoid and test it to see what the voltage is. For all I know it could just be dirty inside.

Moving the battery terminals doesnt work, I have clean-as-a-whistle terminals and a brand new battery. And sometimes the car will start if i just let it sit for a while. sometimes it wont. Totally random.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:46 pm

One thing I've noticed that helps reduce the likelyhood that you'll get stranded by this is if you try starting the car without having the electrical system too loaded down. I've noticed it happens more often when there's a lot of things turned on such as headlamps, heater, etc.

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:07 pm

hmm, I'll have to try turning everything off before starting it. But for now my fail-safe method is my wire that had a connector on one end for the alternator solenoid tab and an alligator clip on the other to tough to the + battery terminal and just jump it like that.

jnorion · Post by **jnorion** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:43 pm

Tleg93 wrote:One thing I've noticed that helps reduce the likelyhood that you'll get stranded by this is if you try starting the car without having the electrical system too loaded down. I've noticed it happens more often when there's a lot of things turned on such as headlamps, heater, etc.

That sometimes helps for me, but not always.

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:44 pm

Did you say the starter is brand new? Sounds to me like a solenoid contacts fried issue.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:29 pm

No, that's probably not it. I thought it was at one point but the starter was changed and it still happened. It acts like that though.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:25 pm

If it's an auto I'd suspect the starter solenoids. The MT's don't seem to have that as much of an issue.

My car has some weird issues where it won't start right away if it's been sitting for a while. It doesn't appear to click or do anything. If I turn the key or hold it, it eventually starts up.

I think my issue may be an issue with the cables at the battery posts. I need to clean them, or it could be wiring.

kidatari · Post by **kidatari** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:40 pm

Legacy777 wrote:If it's an auto I'd suspect the starter solenoids. The MT's don't seem to have that as much of an issue.

My car has some weird issues where it won't start right away if it's been sitting for a while. It doesn't appear to click or do anything. If I turn the key or hold it, it eventually starts up.

I think my issue may be an issue with the cables at the battery posts. I need to clean them, or it could be wiring.

Mine does the exact same thing, albeit very intermittently. Kind of annoying.

Tleg93 · Post by **Tleg93** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:49 am

On my car the mechanic I bought it from seemed to think it was the ignition switch. I've never really looked into it since it happens so rarely. It does seem odd that he wired the switch directly to the starter if the switch was the problem. Maybe it's time to reexamine it.

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:15 pm

well, my car pretty much only starts when its been sitting for a while. But we will see how long that lasts. I have to pop the hood every time I want to start it now.

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:58 pm

So its back to random again. I stayed home from school today

so I can really concentrate on figuring out the problem. Pretty sure its my ignition switch, just need to figure out how to test it...

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:24 am

sooooo, the problem has all but cleared up. It starts almost every time now but sometimes I will turn the key and have to hold it for a second before it starts.

WTF@!?@!??!?@?

Manarius · Post by **Manarius** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:04 am

I still think it's the starter solenoid....

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:21 am

The solenoid built into the starter? I know for a fact that it is not that solenoid. Because I can jump it from the battery and it starts right up.

Bheinen74 · Post by **Bheinen74** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:07 am

either your battery is bad, or the connection terminals on the battery are not correctly positioned then. try to reposition the battery terminals onto the battery.

Imprezive · Post by **Imprezive** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:42 pm

Battery is brand new, so are the terminals. I've tried that. Its not the battery, terminals, or starter solenoid.

I used a voltmeter to check what the starter solenoid was getting when the car wouldnt turn over. it was ~8volts. Not enough to trigger the solenoid. I believe the solenoid needs somewhere between 10 and 12v.

It gotta be the ignition switch.

aludeman · Post by **aludeman** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:26 am

i am having the same problem. i have a 93T wagon. I was also theorizing it was the ignition switch. So I went on verification hunt. The manual says that when ignition switch is in starter position the terminals from the ignition switch should be doing the following:

B63- this one is pretty easy to get access to and is under the dash. pins 3 and 6 have no wires.

Code: Select all

  /\
 123
-456-

      OFF ACC  ON START  = key position
1-B        S    S   S
2-Acc      S    S
5-IG            S   S
4-ST                S
   R                S

S=short

with an ohm meter mine fails in the start position. It appears that pin 5 is not shorting as described. So I tested with pin 1 and pin 5 shorted and my starter still does not engage. It's not clear what "R" is either. I examined the ignition switch itself and did not see any unaccounted for wire. Either the manual is wrong or i have a broken wire somewhere.

I can rule out other connections as I converted my from automatic to manual so I only require to short the neutral pin. The starter is ok if i put +12V on the solenoid on the starter directly it turns over fine.

thanks for any further ideas.

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Car wont start(some of the time) kinda weird!

Car wont start(some of the time) kinda weird!