My Ej22/Ej25 hybrid build thread with lots of questions

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:23 pm

Mr Soul,
How do you propose he bolt his Ej22 manifold to a set of DOHC Ej25 heads? Plug and Play is a vague term at best. But using an EJ25 manifold on this build is the easiest and best approach. First off, the manifold flows better. Second, it actually bolts to his heads. He will want to move his Ej22 intake manifold wiring harness over to the new manifold and then it does become "plug and play" He will also use his TB w/TPS as well as his IAC. All of this bolts up. Then he will put a block off plate on the EGR portion of the manifold and he's good to go.

And 440cc side feeds drop right into '98 DOHC Ej25 fuel rails.

As for the coolant and oil, those heads have the bosses for the factory plumbing since they are based upon Ej20K heads. It's as simple as tapping and threading it and then using OE parts to complete it. Though he may not need to do this since he's already got a turbo and has to have something in place to feed it right now...

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:04 pm

just as a note in napphappy's hybrid thread he mentions that the stock pistons protrude anyways but less than a millimiter.

mr soul · Post by **mr soul** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:54 pm

Well, I didn't say that, I just expressed that he should be reseaching all involved with using whatever heads/manifold he want. There are pluses and minuses with various combo's. The EJ25 heads and mani may be a good choice based on your input on how to do it, but you've got this stuff in your head, I don't think he does.

Just because his injectors fit, do you think he should use them with a stock NA ecu? Aren't they about twice the size of the originals in that car?

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:25 pm

mr soul wrote:You've got this stuff in your head, I don't think he does.

Just because his injectors fit, do you think he should use them with a stock NA ecu? Aren't they about twice the size of the originals in that car?

Both good points.

He will definitely need to do something so he's not stumbling at idle. I think as he goes along he's going to discover that he's going to have to spend some money on EM to make this thing fly...

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:04 am

Matt Monson wrote:
mr soul wrote:You've got this stuff in your head, I don't think he does.

Just because his injectors fit, do you think he should use them with a stock NA ecu? Aren't they about twice the size of the originals in that car?
Both good points. He will definitely need to do something so he's not stumbling at idle. I think as he goes along he's going to discover that he's going to have to spend some money on EM to make this thing fly...

Well, I didnt really want to spend any money on em, but instead of a dis2/dis4/ or boost timing retard, couldn't I control timing and fuel with an emanage blue? Should cost roughly the same. I'll do a search on the emanage....

Oh, and Im pretty sure I have an ej25 manifold. Heads just arrived. They came without the pcv breathers, so Im going to have to fab up some sort of plate with a threaded adapter and hosing back to the intake (this sound right?).

I've thought out pretty much most of the build, but there are still a few things im learning and will need to buy...

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:40 am

Crank measures out at 2.363 for all. Rods measure out at 2.048. What is spec?

Pictures of build here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/gto7419

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:33 pm

Ok, so I called the guy Im buying bearings from and spec is 2.3616 - 2.3622 for the main, and 2.0466-2.0472 for the rods.

I went back down again and used 2 different mics, and Im damn close to the larger numbers. I just ordered the bearings for $60 shipped.

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:15 pm

piggybacks for the loose.

standalones for teh win

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:18 pm

azn2nr wrote:piggybacks for the loose.

standalones for teh win

If you want to buy me a standalone I'll wait here with my arms out...

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:24 pm

im really being serious. you hit a brick wall with what you can do when you consider a piggy back

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:27 am

As of right now, Im hitting a brick wall with funding

In reality, I can either buy an safc II + msd dis2 (both used), or a greddy emanage used...

I just dont have the money for anything else. If you can find me a standalone that I can tune for under $300 I'll take it...

azn2nr · Post by **azn2nr** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:53 am

sell teh shifter cart for monees

btw no money = no build. live and learn because youll have a bitch of a time trying to recoup when you save up the extra 700 dollars you need for a standalone

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:06 am

The whole car cost me less than im spending on the build. Im not buying em thats costing more than the build either. Im also not keeping this car for the rest of my life.

If I can get by using em thats going to cost 1/4 the price of stand alone, im going to get by. If I have to buy a $1000 stand alone, Im going to sell everything and run an n/a motor.... I have the money... Im just not willing to spend it.... There are other more important things that I need to do - like move out of my parents house...

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:10 am

Oh, and I would NEVER sell the 125cc....

The 500cc is on its way out hopefully by next week (sold). Its time for it to leave as I was too afraid to drive it anyway.
Ive never been in anything so fast in my entire life, and Ive driven Ferrari Modenas, Maseratis, Modded Vettes, Modded Camaros....

I swear, I almost blacked out once while accelerating.... The acceleration is unreal. Never did get past third gear....

206er · Post by **206er** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:46 am

gto7419 wrote: I just dont have the money for anything else. If you can find me a standalone that I can tune for under $300 I'll take it...

used megasquirt setup:)
takes some doing, but is very versatile and well supported

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:59 am

Too late, I just bought a barely used safc II for $140 shipped...

I think Im going to wait and find a dis 2 cheap, or go for msd's boost timing retard... Id rather have the dis 2 because it supposedly smoothes out the entire ignition system...

Just hope I can find one for under $200.... It will take a lot of looking, but I'll find it...

Danny

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:30 am

Have almost everything I need and Im waiting for the block to come back from the shop (being honed).

One question - what crank timing gear should I use? Im guessing the ej25 dohc crank timing gear? Is it year specific?

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:00 am

What I've learned through the course of my build is to take whatever you think its gonna cost and double it. That should get you in the ballpark.

Skimping on important stuff usually bites you in the ass.

Good luck, and don't let the man get you down.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:08 pm

93forestpearl wrote:What I've learned through the course of my build is to take whatever you think its gonna cost and double it. That should get you in the ballpark.

That's very good and TRUE advice....

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:23 pm

Actually, I was shooting for an under $1000 build, and Im at roughly $1200 including new ej22t pistons I wasnt planning on using. I have almost everything I need as of right now - other than the pistons, which I am going to order shortly.

I think I did pretty well for everything I have....

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:16 pm

I'm a little late, but a cheap solution for additional fuel for boost that kicks the FMU's butt is the addtional injector.
Use your stock injectors with a very low - no FMU ramp-up, & use the 5th injector to add the fuel you need.

I installed & tune one of these systems on my buddies rotory(12a 1120cc) Toyota Starlet & we ran 11.65@118mph at just 9.5psi of boost - this was using a carb for idle & using 2 injectors for fuel enrichment under boost.
At 12 psi starting in second gear (tranny broke) we ran 11.31 @ 126.xx MPH many times.
At 15psi the car almost ran into the wall 2x (let off & got back on) in Englishtown's raceway park due to the 26x10x15" slicks spinning uncontrollably (I datalogged max rpm's @ 13,800) boost turned back down to 12psi until new slicks (28x12x15"), & tranny are in car.
The time goal for this car is 10.5-10.8 seconds (reliably), target boost for this car is 27-30psi on C-12 while injecting methonal (car is High compression 9.7-10:1 comp).
I think this goal could be met !
My buddy usually got 2 x 9.9 sec @135ish MPH passes out of his large(13B 1308cc) motor set-up with a 250HP shot of nitrous in this car, but was blowing motors while trying to make a pass on this set-up (3 dead motors 0 complete passes).
We currently have 14 passes on this motor spinning the slicks for 1/4 mile!

I have tried with success a number of things on my OBS-T that people claim was not possible, & found that many people tell you things can't be done because they have read that written in some post, but few have actually tried to do these things.
The SAFC's are good but are more time consuming to set-up (like cleaning a floor with a toothbrush), and require finetuning to compensate for weather change in order for the system to stay reliable.
Good luck,
I'm located in the Bx. NY so feel free to pm me if you want to meet-up.

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:18 am

First, thank you for all the replies - without this forum and the guys who respond, I would not have been able to even start this project.

So, I have another question!!!

Im going to be using a safc II and msd dis2 to control fuel and timing.

*SHOULD* I continue to use my ej22 n/a ecu, or stop being a cheap sob and buy an ej22t ecu? If I do run the ej22t ecu, I run into several issues - such as fuel cut, and having to get a few additional parts and wire it all up.

Would the ej22t ecu be worth it?

Danny

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:06 pm

If you are going that route, get an Ej20G WRX ECU and add in the coil on plug ignition along with the turbo wiring. Otherwise there's no point in switching ECUs...

gto7419 · Post by **gto7419** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:32 am

Thats what I needed to know - Thanks Matt!!!

Ugh - the damn block has been at the shop for 3 weeks waiting on a hone.

In the meantime, the engine in the Legacy just started eating a TON more oil

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:09 am

gto7419 wrote:

*SHOULD* I continue to use my ej22 n/a ecu, or stop being a cheap sob and buy an ej22t ecu? If I do run the ej22t ecu, I run into several issues - such as fuel cut, and having to get a few additional parts and wire it all up.

Would the ej22t ecu be worth it?

Danny

Personally, I am making 300 whp on a 1990 NA ecu plus PP6, which really is doing nothing up top...

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My Ej22/Ej25 hybrid build thread with lots of questions